CZAR

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CZAR

Postby Rikai » 23 Sep 2019, 22:41

Is there any actual use to the Czar?
Every time I ask people on what the purpose of the Donut is, the answer is pretty much: "it's useless".
It has barely more HP than the Asswasher but it is much slower.
I suppose it is meant to be a juggernaut, but it kinda is a laughing stock instead.

Its opportunity cost is roughly 2 GCs. I'd always prefer just getting 2 GCs instead.

Maybe a slight HP increase could help? What do you think?
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Re: CZAR

Postby keyser » 23 Sep 2019, 22:49

The balance team made a PR on it already: https://github.com/FAForever/fa/pull/2755

We want to add it a personal shield, which will allow the CZAR to act as defensive exp against land army/exp, that can take a fight, then back and regen his shield and go back in the fight. I will be able to kill small base/fortification.
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Re: CZAR

Postby LabPunk » 23 Sep 2019, 22:54

Only if you just remove crash damage, czar kills way more acu's and bases than other air exps.
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Re: CZAR

Postby keyser » 23 Sep 2019, 23:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8OWYJE93sk

if you are interested by the design. Balance need to be made still.
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Re: CZAR

Postby armacham01 » 24 Sep 2019, 00:56

If the Czar is going to be buffed, we should take away the aircraft construction ability. it can still have air staging/transport. But it does not make sense to have an air factory.

Aeon is all about single-minded extremeness. Mixing a factory in with high-altitude hover plus also a beam weapon is moving away from purity towards cybran-like flexibility.

Also, I think people barely use the air factory.

A shield does fit with the Aeon theme and I like the idea that it could be used without suiciding it. Right now, it takes so long to self-repair damage that whenever you use it you push it a little closer to suicide.
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Re: CZAR

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 25 Sep 2019, 00:01

If there is not some serious progress in general code, then personal shield on aircraft will not work. While it goes with hitboxes and way how they are made in air units. I tested shielded aircraft and only way how to do it is bubble shield.

But on czar is bubble shield serious problem, while czar is really a big unit, so even bubble must be really big what is problematic on two separate points.
First is that asf shoot center point of czar what can be very close to where shield end, so is possible that will bypass them.
Second, bubble shield is not eclipsing, its bubble, and can on some terrain easily hit the ground, where land AA will bypass it.

at all shield is not as good idea as it should sound like. Unless there is some serious code progress.

Looking into code from that PR:
at all its still 70K hp, while drain energy. Problem with czar and every air experimental is simply: super op air superiority fighter. That cost 350m and have 400dps. Compare to land units its as when brick will have 1120dps as that good asfs are. Blob on asfs what on time when air exp come surely exist and with 25 speed can reach any point on map extremely fast and attack single unit in any moment. At all it will go down nearly immediately. And only point for czar and ahwasa is jast fall down corectly to important targets.

In equilibrium add double range to AA missile, triple DPS to flak, increase hp to 150 000, create function factory that even work and nerf ASFs to 300dps, 20sp and 500m cost and then is czar kind of fine. Still didnt found it op.

So will not say more, but this change on these numbers will be purely cosmetic.
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Re: CZAR

Postby keyser » 25 Sep 2019, 00:15

well i invite you to look at the asf PR.
also not sure why you say shielded aircraft doesn't work, seemed to work well in my video.
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Re: CZAR

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 25 Sep 2019, 00:26

Have no info about general code changes 2-3 years, but in past there was serious problem with predictability where it does damage as it should do. Some time was damage taken to shield, some time to hp and bypass personal shield. It was because aircraft didnt have any pathway and hitboxes work differently. Maybe something is new what fix this problem, maybe you not recognize that this problem is not as obvious while it not happend in every scenario. Ill check asf :)
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Re: CZAR

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 25 Sep 2019, 00:40

Check the ASF PR, that move them closer to EQ format, what is nice, but still are far more strong as in eq, and czar need like a triple buff to force.

But personál Shield work corectli IT should be better to not deal with cancer instaheal and Non posible to repair (if even repair should work some time)
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