Patch 3704 Release Thread

[Umenyalapkee]

Scathis only needs something like a disruptor if you are having trouble breaking a base, otherwise it is fine by itself. A unit does not need to be synergistic to be good. Comparing it to a mavor makes no sense, since a mavor has a single-point high damage projectile, and the scathis spreads out its damage over a large area.

It's not looks like fine for me, so maybe you can give a litte explanation? And, if Scathis need a Disruptor (and you can buid it in range), why not build 4 Disruptor's instead of 1 Disruptor and 1 Scathis. It's equal (and more with p-gens) DPS,(and if you mentioned it, Disruptor not waste that huge prosent of DPS that Scathis does). And even it not so, that makes no sense for me,

Even calling a brick a "bad percival" makes no sense, as bricks are better than percivals at doing most things, bricks have higher range, higher health, and do not waste 300dps when fighting lower tier units.

Well, that good point! Briks do not have alfa to take out GK before it go much damage for example. And they most likely going to lose Percival's spam to spam in equal numbers. One Brik will lose to one Percival. He is too slow, and can't even dodge Perci shots like Harb (even after nerf) can. So Percival (spam) >>> Brick (spam). But its fine, because Cybran have many other ways to conter Percivals in land, like Megalith, Loyalist's, or T3 mobile arty, or t1 spam. And UEF have Fatboy, Titan, mobile shilds, etc., to to counter.
Mavor will win arty duel to Scathis, just like Perci will win vs Brick. UEF have better shild's (and shild SACU) and can snipe Scathis itself, SMD's. ACU and whatever they want. Salvations come after Paragon and can do the same. Single Yolona missle land on your base - there no base.

TL;DR - Percival good vs direct fire exp and other t3 spam. Percival conter for ML, or for Brick. Cybran has other way to conter Percival. Brick have other purposes that Percival and good at it.
Mavor good to kill SMD's, arty's, HQ, and other gameenders. Mavor is conter for Scathis, just like Perci is conter fo Brick.
Mavor have list of good target's. What is good target for Scathis (exept from gigant unprotected air/massfab grind, because it can be killed way more easuly) Where is Cybran conter for Mavor (telemazer is even more suicide and rapidfire nuke no more).

Anyway, that not important, Scathis was almost useless, Scathis is almost useless, so if you Cybran, and game hit gameender stage, just go telemazer, and free mass for Aeon or UEF teammate.

Also, I found topic form two ears ago, and now all shold see that this was ideas of real visionary viewforum.php?f=2&start=25

double the build power that builds its missile and the required build power to build the missile, so as to half the contribution of assisting engies,

and

the command "attack this unit specifically but don't fucking stop to walk because the target is escaping".

now real! So we need just wait some time for all other.
First and foremost

there's no point in having units that are useless

one.

[UnorthodoxBox]

The issue is you are trying to compare a scathis and mavor in a mavor-oriented scenario, instead of a game ender scenario. The mavor cannot take out an entire air grid in one shot, then almost everything else in the next. Sure it can get through shields easier, but that is the entire point of the mavor. Its like saying the aeon t3 mobile arty is better than the cybran t3 mobile arty because it has more single shot damage and is more accurate.

[Umenyalapkee]

Let's try its last time.

Its like saying the aeon t3 mobile arty is better than the cybran t3 mobile arty because it has more single shot damage and is more accurate.

What arty gonna win duel 1v1? Aeon or Cybran?

The mavor cannot take out an entire air grid in one shot,

It can chain p-gens and kill all of them for a little more time. Or kill HQ and grind no longer works. Or kill SMD and nuke it. Or snipe ACU and no longer airgrind and air (it its not Seton, but FAF not balanced around one map, right?)

game ender scenario

And what it is game ender scenario is? Like one of them

"I can easily end the game right now, but I would rather build this scathis"

and other is when game draw on land, air and naval. Them comes a gameender from both sides. So its gameender duel. Where Scathis cannot focus anything, but gigant unprotected airgrind. 4 t3 pgens and RAS-SACU around Mavor is enough to keep it shielded. And if you have Paragon, that grind no longer matters. Yolona is another story, but its much сheaper.

So now Scathis have no singergy, no micro potencial (just fire where enemy base is, no focus or something), no good targets except airgrind (again no focus) cannot be used to stop conterattack with land/naval spam like Yolona, (that it can kill ML for example), and it cost's around Mavor. So its "bad Mavor", not even bad Salvation, because noticeably cheaper in mass and much cheaper in buildpower. Scathis not conter for other gameender, and Cybran do not have one, except from suicide. Or what it is? If Scathis have some other prefs, like fire on move, lover deploy time, or more accurate fire in lover range (like it was in beta) or just be сheaper, it would be ok, but now it just "bad Mavor". And that may be fine, if only Cybran have another way to make impact on gameender stage (except from suicide again).

Let me guess answer like

"A unit does not need to be able to focus, or have potential for microcontrol, or be сheaper that analog, to be good. Mavor cannot kill naval army with t1 frigate spam and Scathis good for that. Scathis not "bad Mavor" or “bad Salvation” that it's like saying that Corsair is better that Janus because it have not splash, but direct strike. If you see Corsair snipe, just use your Januses to kill p-gens, and that will do the job, no other conter needed. If your Janus have problems with that, just add some t1 bombers. Or maybe it's like saying that Medusa better that Fobo. But comparing t1 arty to t1 arty make not sense, because one have EMP, and other have hover, so its completely different units. Even if Medusa better that Fobo at doing most things because its lover price and hier DPS"

Well, maybe not literally, but something like that.

[____]

Yolona is another story, but its much сheaper.

The Yolona isn't much cheaper, it literally costs 10000000 energy, which is more than double the energy price of a Scathis, and almost double that of a Mavor.

[UnorthodoxBox]

You are looking at this wrong, and again, you are comparing trying to find out whether a mavor or a scathis is better at being a mavor. Of course a mavor is better at killing a scathis than a scathis is at killing a mavor. That does not make the scathis useless. The end game does not boil down to "kill this one building and we win" most of the time. Sometimes you have to quickly destroy entire power grids quickly, and then once the shields cannot run, destroy the entire base. Yes mavors break shields faster in a single area, but they do not kill a large area of buildings in one volley. You need to stop thinking about what is better at doing the mavor's job, and think instead of what is better in certain scenarios.

Mavor>>> kill specific buildings one at a time
Yolona>>> overwhelm nuke defense (which doesnt work if they have enough) and take out entire areas, negating shields
Paragon>>> spam 1 million of whatever unit is needed for the scenario, but with a delayed impact
scathis>>> take out entire sections of a base in 1 volley

Now, these are not always true, since the game is not that linear, but it should demonstrate the use of game enders in different scenarios. If you are trying to use a scathis like a mavor, YOU SHOULD HAVE BUILT A MAVOR. The scathis is not a mavor, and is not trying to be one, just like it is not trying to be a yolona oss, or a paragon.

[Quant]

Why was TML nerfed?
It was already very situational and easy to counter.

[UnorthodoxBox]

Why was TML nerfed?
It was already very situational and easy to counter.

Mainly it was a super cheap way to just put your opponent behind without them being able to get anything out of it. A TML leaves behind 0 reclaim, whereas a raid will leave behind the unit and structure wrecks. I definitely agree with it from a 1v1 perspective, but on team games, it didnt seem to be all that effective (maybe kill one or two mex before the entire team has TMD.) Anyhow, it will make the TML less devastating in 1v1, but I do not see this having much of an effect (if at all) in team games.

[Thomy100]

After playing a lot of games recently I see the following issues with balance in this patch.

Scathis (yes again): Is too strong and I dont mean only beacause it's now the strongest game ender taking the price into account. It can be build UNDER SEA (!!!) which makes it almost impossible to prevent it from getting finished. This detail has been overlooked I think when buffing it or not taken enough into account. Make it AT LEAST stationary if you want to keep it on this current strenght

Seraphim is being barely played anymore especially from 1200 up. No one just picks it anymore because it has been nerfed to shit. the buff for the t3 subs was not enough. mass t2 subs and t2 torp bombs counter them hard, they are not cost effective. you cant prevent Harms creep. Aeon t2 navy, uef t2 navy is stronger. Seraphim used to have their strenght at navy, not anymore. they dont have much going for them anyway and now having only the 3rd strongest navy too makes them just not a viable pick. And the yolona oss is now double the price of a marvor?? are you kidding me? the weaker game ender has double the price? how is that logical? t3 arty is waaaay to expensive as well, takes forever to build.

[armacham01]

Could you use stealth SACUs to build a Scathis underwater? Then nothing would show up on radar.

[Tagada]

t2 Seraphim navy is really strong if you micro your destroyers, I has one of the best if not the best cruisers because of it's flak, I has hover flak which is extremly useful. Seraphim has also the best rambo acu, one of the best t2 land, their t2 gunship is extremly strong. They have t3 shields and best sniper bots.

And Ofc Fobo's