Commander naval weapon

[Little Miss Murder]

It doesnt help you contest floaty spam. There are no tools for that except air and that is a money pit while your opponent spams reclaim engies at leisure.

The fact of the matter is that Cybran can only win navy if they are already in the water and have enough critical numbers to combat floatiness to begin with.

[FtXCommando]

You contest hover tanks with frigates not your own hover tanks.

HARMS allow cybran to get back into the water quicker and often for less mass investment than mass zthuee so that they can spam their excellent frig to deal with new shit.

Critical number of frigs to stop hover = 1

[Little Miss Murder]

PS Ive suggested in the past that Wagners become submersible boaty things in the water but, quelle surprise, the idea is laughed at.

[Little Miss Murder]

You contest hover tanks with frigates not your own hover tanks.

HARMS allow cybran to get back into the water quicker and often for less mass investment than mass zthuee so that they can spam their excellent frig to deal with new shit.

Critical number of frigs to stop hover = 1

You are only making my point for me. You need to be in the water to win it. Once you are high and dry it is an uphill battle.

[FtXCommando]

point me to the replays of riptides winning navy? Or blaze + shields winning back navy? Any high level replay is gonna involve torps crushing for that to be even conceivable. Lower rated replays would maybe see success because the aggressive player overestimated his projection capability or didn’t micro.

Dunno how I’m making your point for you. Because you make HARMS in the water? So what? Because you make frigs after getting back into the water? Yeah? That’s what every faction would do barring incredible zthuee spam?

Obviously it’s an uphill battle; that’s the point. You got greedy and didn’t invest in units and now you’re facing the punishment for your greed.

[Little Miss Murder]

I'm not going to play the burden of proof game. I've seen it, you've seen it, we have all seen it.

It also isnt as simple as that. Floaty spam has an offensive value that goes beyond just contesting navy; frigate spam stays in the water and so it is a one-horse resource investment gambit. Same with using air as a counter.

You seem to be under the impression that I am asserting that Cybran dont have naval tools. Nothing is further from the truth. What IS missing is an equivalent back-into-the-water play and the fact that torps are of no use against hover.

[Little Miss Murder]

Obviously it’s an uphill battle; that’s the point. You got greedy and didn’t invest in units and now you’re facing the punishment for your greed.

Tell that to the opponent who got his butt whupped in navy and resorts to hoverspam. The point is that he or she has that option. Whether it succeeds or not is entirely irrelevant. The option is there and that means it has a non-zero chance of success. Compare that to the Cybran option when faced with a similar situation....?

*crickets*

[Plasma_Wolf]

I'm not going to play the burden of proof game. I've seen it, you've seen it, we have all seen it.

Seen what? Hoverspam winning navy after a complete loss in navy? I haven't seen that. At best I've seen hoverspam delay the enemy land push after he won navy.

So where is this hover on navy win that you're talking about? Just upload one replay and I'll watch it to see how it happens.

[E8400-CV]

I've seen it a few times.... with a 5x eco advantage for the floatspam player.

Other than that... huh? No way.