T3 mex upgrade and build price

[noobymcnoobcake]

It can be balanced that making a T3 mex rather than going T1/T2/T3 is still the best idea, While being balanced that cntrl K and reclaiming T2 mex is a bad idea.

You dont get all the mass back from reclaim of a t2 mex.

You do get more mass from the less buildpower required to straight build a t3 mex rather than T1/T2/T3 and with the pause in between.

[FtXCommando]

It can be balanced that making a T3 mex rather than going T1/T2/T3 is still the best idea, While being balanced that cntrl K and reclaiming T2 mex is a bad idea.

You dont get all the mass back from reclaim of a t2 mex.

You do get more mass from the less buildpower required to straight build a t3 mex rather than T1/T2/T3 and with the pause in between.

Your solution to deal with an unintuitive game mechanic is to randomly make the reclaim of one specific structure less valuable? Sounds unintuitive.

[noobymcnoobcake]

No, its to increase the cost of the standalone T3 mex slightly. - You completely missed my point that you dont get a 100% return from reclaim...

High Enough to make killing T2 mex and reclaiming and replacing with t3 mex not profitable with a "Reasonable" amount of build power

Low enough that building a T3 mex from scratch if you have a t3 engineer is still a better option.

The cost increase required will have to be calculated for a range of available build powers and from
-the value of reclaim from the T2 mex.
-The mass gained from the t2 mex during the upgrade process to t3 with the buildpower

[Evildrew]

You could play with the buildtime and buildpower of the T3 mex if you want to manipulate how much engy buildpower without touching cost. Kind of the principle you have with Nukes where adding tons of engies wont make it build too much quicker.

[UgaUgaMonkey]

It seems silly that it is more cost efficient to kill a t2 mex and rebuild it as a t3 mex than upgrade.

This does require APM, and hence skill in some form

Silly or not.. i like the point that you can gain an advantage through APM.

Imo you miss the point, that killing t2 mex and going for t3 is high risk/reward.

[noobymcnoobcake]

It seems silly that it is more cost efficient to kill a t2 mex and rebuild it as a t3 mex than upgrade.

This does require APM, and hence skill in some form

Silly or not.. i like the point that you can gain an advantage through APM.

Imo you miss the point, that killing t2 mex and going for t3 is high risk/reward.

There is nothing high risk high reward here. If you have the build power and APM it is Objectively more economically efficient. Why not make players use apm in more exciting ways?

[Endranii]

Well you could make it so the enemy have no apm spare for this kind of stuff? For example micro your army to kill his without much loses so then you can steamroll while he is busy ctrlk'ing mexes?

[noobymcnoobcake]

Yes, APM is skill in some form.

but my point that people seem to be missing is that

- This is not exciting game play to play with or against
- This is not exciting game play to watch

We really should limit factory ques to 10 units - and remove the infinite loop, as more APM is more skill

[Yolo-]

Why not just let players decide for themselves how to use their apm?

For the majority of players ctrlking mexes is quite insignificant, because they don't do it correctly. They just do it because they see higher rated people do it, and even the higher rated players f*** it up a lot.
If done correctly you get like 200-300 mass gain, which is not that much. Spending your apm to micro your units better or reclaim something manually can just be equivalent in efficiency. For some busy situations it can be much better to just queue up mex upgrade assist with engis, because then you won't store lots of mass in storage when you can't give the ctrlk and rebuild orders in time.

It's really not worth discussing about this topic when the gain is so insignificant for pretty much anyone and nobody really has a clue how much it actually matters.

[UgaUgaMonkey]

100% Signed Yolo

As Yolo said its not that easy, even for good players.

If u have lots of buildpower.... if i have 10+ SCU´s i won´t bother anymore to save that mass.

In a usual game i try to go first T3 mex with 2-3 T3 Engies or T3 Acu plus some T1 Engies. ( Especially at the first T3 Mexes u benefit from the extra mass.. the more income u have the less u care)

I have to reclaim or CTRL+K the mex ( takes about 5 sec), then i have to reclaim it ( 2sec ), then my silly engies waste some seconds untill they start building.
With that buildpower my T3 mex will take about 18sec.
So it takes me 3 actions to make that rebuilding work.

If i miss some seconds to start reclaiming => deal gets worse
If i miss some seconds to start rebuilding => deal gets worse
If u stall mass/energie => deal gets worse
If the enemy attacks me at that time and i lose units => deal gets worse
If the enemy attacks me and i have to switch my buildpower to sth else ( good enemy might w8 for u to tech first t3 mexes and go for t2 bomber snipe ) => deal gets worse
If i calculated wrong or had to switch buildpower and the mass in ur storage isn´t enough to get T3 Mex "insant" => deal gets insane worse

In low rating games, where u sit in ur base, chillin and making eco, it might look like a no risk thing..
but if u are in a high rating game, with action all over the map, spending apm on rebuilding mex is risky..

And all this for a gain of 550 mass in my example [ T2 Mex Reclaim = 729 mass - ( Missing Income over time 9 mass/s * 20 s = 180 mass ) ]

If i lose 2 ASF or 2 t2 Tanks or 1 T3 bot due to missmicro in case of rebuilding T3 mex my advantage is gone.

So please let the players decide if its worth it.

Btw:
Time to rebuild / ~ mass advantage ( downrating of multiple engineers not included )
20s / 549
30s / 459
40s / 279
50s / 60
60s / 189
70s / 99
80s / 9