T3 arties - noob heaven, need rebalance

[uzurpator]

I concur. This would most likely fix the issue.

[Turinturambar]

unlkely that bt change would fix much in matters of T3 arty. ppl usually stall anyway while building it allready. to actually make bp a factor for T3 aty bp would need to be increased by a factor of 4-6+ (to compare atm a mega has a bt of 66k and a cyb T3 arty a bt of 30k while cosing about 2 times as much as a mega)

[Farmsletje]

unlkely that bt change would fix much in matters of T3 arty. ppl usually stall anyway while building it allready.

The same could be said about t4 bt, but it affected gameplay anyway

[keyser]

I mean bt increase on t3 static arty is a sensible idea.
But it won't fix the op issue that is 95 % due to the map.

[Farmsletje]

iirc an increase in t3 arty buildtime was mentioned somewhere in ze balance chamber in order to match the t4 buildtime nerf. But yeah, this probably won't have too big of an effect on dual gap

[____]

unlkely that bt change would fix much in matters of T3 arty. ppl usually stall anyway while building it allready. to actually make bp a factor for T3 aty bp would need to be increased by a factor of 4-6+ (to compare atm a mega has a bt of 66k and a cyb T3 arty a bt of 30k while cosing about 2 times as much as a mega)

I don't think so. When talking about Gap games, there is usually always someone (usually on one of the air players) with 20k mass in his storage, because he does not have economy management. The easiest option for him to stop overflowing would be to start a game ender, since he has no way to spend it. When playing higher ranked DG you see much less T3 Arty spam, since they make you lose your lane. From my experience this seems like the typical “no buildpower - overeco” problem. But again, I am not only referring to gap, this can also happen on other maps, it is just rare.

And yes, people stall when they are building it. And when they get a lot of mass from their teammates, they won't stall then insta build it.

Insta building a game ender with just a couple of T3 engies is just a broken mechanic in general imo. I may be a bit biased here, but honestly all instant mass dumps just promote bad gameplay no matter the map. If the goal is to balance this game around the competitive aspect of it (which I can understand ofc) removing all or most of the instant mass dumps would be thing I would promote. This is not supposed to be some Gap player propaganda (I am working on a total remake with a much higher focus on naval gameplay anyway), I am just trying to give some suggestions

Also, when considering this change is, what negative effects it could have. Yes, you would need to spam a lot more engies which could make pathfinding troublesome sometimes, but honestly, I don't see many more.

EDIT: Ofc those are just my experiences. If this would ever become part of the Beta I would be willing to test it in-depth.

[moses_the_red]

So I have a question.

How accurate is T3 artillery. I've used it, and I know its not perfectly accurate but it ain't bad either. That said I don't have the experience to know how often it will hit a large army in formation.

The reason I ask is that 3700 damage in a radius of 9 is just utterly devastating to T3 land armies. If you hit 10 units - which isn't too absurd if you're talking about grouped T3 armies, you just did 37,000 damage, and in 7.7 seconds you can do it again. In situations like that, it has the same DPS as a Monkeylord.

I think that if it can consistently do that, then it's worth considering a splash radius reduction, killing T3 land armies is probably not part of its intended role as a base siege weapon.

[FtXCommando]

Agreed, every faction’s t3 arty should only have double the splash of their t1 arty.

[Morax]

Thermo and rushmemore are already maps that are unrated. Think mapping team is planning to do a system where maps need to be reviewed before becoming public in the vault. Problem with unrating maps for “shit gameplay” is deciding why exactly a map is “shit gameplay.”

Dual Gap is no diff than most 6v6 maps; they’re all shit for developing a healthy game balance and the game shouldn’t be balanced around these games. Dual Gap can be a nice map for a 2v2 or a 3v3, so I don’t get the point in unrating it.

So, the M&M team has no right to say if a map is "shit gameplay" or not. As much as I want to have that power, it would cause too much of a backlash.

But, I think in time - and currently - we have proven that the map vault is abused far too often by people neglecting to use the versioning system properly. After a discussion with the devs and mod team, it became clear that, just like how UID and SteamLink are back due to high number of accounts abuse, map vault upload will be default to hidden until review.

It also does not help the people who want to share their maps that 90% of it are people with the goal of "getting their name on the front page:"

Spoiler: show

The amount of childish behavior I have had to deal with where people simply claim "their version is the one that should be used" has only helped the case that gap of rohan, astro, etc etc are going to have a big problem up and coming. In time this "maps hidden by default" feature will be implemented, and like balance changes, we expect an uproar.

It is the hope of myself and many others that it will not prohibit, but deter the amount of gap and astro uploads, etc. The difficult in getting a map unhidden will be harsh. After 4 years of observation and now collecting the reasoning, it will hopefully hold. I think we can all agree that posts like this one prove it's a cultural issue.

That said, can we reverse the culture of 95% of people playing mostly gap and astro in FAF? Don't know the answer to that, but personally I think it has gone on for too long and taking it away will prove harmful.

If this fails, then I give up and someone else can try and clean up the utterly horrid map vault.

[moses_the_red]

Agreed, every faction’s t3 arty should only have double the splash of their t1 arty.

No comment on any of the meat of that post, not on the DPS being equal to a monkeylord in some situations, nothing.

I've come to expect very little from your replies and man, you do not disappoint.