Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel order

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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby keyser » 17 Sep 2018, 17:39

When I cancel a unit I usually do it because I want to immediately start making something I need. Leaving a wreck to reclaim when canceling would be the opposite of a QOL improvement in that case.


Oh i never meant that would like that either. That would be unplayable. But it would make more sense than getting back the resources from the cosmos, like blodir is suggesting.
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby Blodir » 17 Sep 2018, 17:48

keyser wrote:
When I cancel a unit I usually do it because I want to immediately start making something I need. Leaving a wreck to reclaim when canceling would be the opposite of a QOL improvement in that case.


Oh i never meant that would like that either. That would be unplayable. But it would make more sense than getting back the resources from the cosmos, like blodir is suggesting.

I must have missed the part in supcom lore where mass disappears to the void when constructing units
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby AdmiralZeech » 23 Sep 2018, 13:06

Rather than talking about whether it makes sense or not, what effect does it have on gameplay?

Personally I think it's so infrequently used that it will have very little effect on real gameplay, and if it was implemented it could probably open up several potential exploits to be be abused.

I don't think it's really worth the effort?
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby JoonasTo » 24 Sep 2018, 13:25

I just lost a game few days ago because my air player didn’t want to cancel his strat xD

Also misclicked and made a t1 bomber a few days before that I didn’t want to cancel^^

So as to does it happen? Yes, yes it does.
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby Steel_Panther » 25 Nov 2018, 04:41

keyser wrote:
When I cancel a unit I usually do it because I want to immediately start making something I need. Leaving a wreck to reclaim when canceling would be the opposite of a QOL improvement in that case.


Oh i never meant that would like that either. That would be unplayable. But it would make more sense than getting back the resources from the cosmos, like blodir is suggesting.


It would make sense to me if the factory can just reclaim the mass invested so far, with no wreck left. It would reclaim at the same rate as standard buildpower, so a t1 factory reclaims as fast as 4 t1 engineers. For t1 units this almost instantly reclaims the unit and you wouldn't waste mass but have hardly any delay, so it would be more convenient. But maybe you would have an issue with higher tier units still taking some time to reclaim, especially naval units. I don't know exactly the mass reclaim rate per bp. Assisting engies ought to be able to assist with reclaiming to help ease that possible problem as well though, so it could still be preferable for t2 and t3 factories.

I do hate just losing the mass, but it just doesn't seem like it should be instantly refunded either. This type of factory reclaiming mechanic would seem to be a fair compromise to me. I have no idea if it is feasible to code. Also, maybe you would want to have a separate option to reclaim vs immediately stop and forfeit the mass, so that you can still choose to immediately cancel a unit too if you want to.
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby Dro » 25 Nov 2018, 16:57

i think 50% of its current progress being refunded is fair
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby TheKoopa » 25 Nov 2018, 18:39

Yea lets take out even more decisions from the game and make it even dumber
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby moses_the_red » 30 Nov 2018, 00:49

Mountain wrote:
Anihilnine wrote:if it was instantly put in storage it would be weird

if it was a slow reclaim, that might be annoying cos player might need something urgent, eg AA vs mercies

middle ground is to have have huge reclaim speed?



Any reclaim mechanic would just break everything cause now we cant cancel instantly which is pretty important to be able to do.

Even with insta cancel returning resources, I'm opposed to this personally because it makes it less punishing to make poor decisions. But I guess if the numbers were small enough I could see it reducing some pain without being too soft on poor play


Its not the job of the game's mechanics to punish player's for poor play. That's the player's opponents job. Players should be punished by other players for having units out of position or not enough units or bad map control or bad micro. They shouldn't be punished by the game's mechanics for their actions.

I think that this kind of attitude goes against the spirit of SupCom in a fundamental way. The high APM games like Starcraft, they might punish a player for having bad game mechanics. Supreme Commander is supposed to be different. With supcom the game itself tries to be as helpful as possible, its your opponents that are supposed to punish you.
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby moses_the_red » 30 Nov 2018, 00:57

AdmiralZeech wrote:Rather than talking about whether it makes sense or not, what effect does it have on gameplay?

Personally I think it's so infrequently used that it will have very little effect on real gameplay, and if it was implemented it could probably open up several potential exploits to be be abused.

I don't think it's really worth the effort?


I tend to agree here. Is the change worth the risk? I think the change itself would be beneficial to the game, but if it involves significant risk of exploits or functions as a time sink for devs then its probably not worth it. If its generally agreed to be beneficial and the devs feel its a low effort low risk kind of change then it should go in. Otherwise there are more important matters that should be addressed.
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Re: Return some percentage of resources on factory cancel or

Postby moonbearonmeth » 30 Nov 2018, 03:33

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