Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby moonbearonmeth » 29 Nov 2017, 23:38

Yolo- wrote:As i explained with the picture, you can't really take advantage of the omens agility. And I did try to micro them quite a lot. You can also see that in the replay, how i micro the bs and then get out of range, so Robo can happily continue firing at me, while i lose dps.

You mean like the Eighth picture in the album that said "Okay correction, here is some battleship micro, very nice. Also worth indicating this Omen is still in range of the Summits."

Yolo- wrote:This is just complete bullshit. I don't dictate the engagement into a short range engagement ... the 100 range force me to come into close range.

That is literally what dictating the engagement is. Your opponent had a (range) advantage which you nullified by forcing a situation where your battleships were in range and your opponent couldn't get this range advantage back which leads to what I've been trying to say this entire time, if the entire engagement happened at sub-100 range with no unit engaging from ranges further than that (including the Summits) added range would not benefit it.[/quote]

Yolo- wrote:And Neptunes certainly don't melt under Omen fire.

25k HP doesn't leave it a lot of breathing room in a T3 naval engagement.

Yolo- wrote:He can just retreat them and doom aeon bs even more.

I am really going to need you to explain this one.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby Yakmann » 29 Nov 2017, 23:49

PhilipJFry wrote:lack of shields


Don't Mermaids/Stealth compensate for that already?
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby JoonasTo » 29 Nov 2017, 23:59

Yakmann wrote:
PhilipJFry wrote:lack of shields


Don't Mermaids/Stealth compensate for that already?

No and yes. It's situational. Yes in the midgame, no in the lategame.

T1 scout stream from one to three air factories negates it too hard to be viable alternative in the lategame. It forces enemy to focus fire your units in the best situation, negating his ability to micro, but he doesn't care because he doesn't need to micro, he has shields.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby Yolo- » 30 Nov 2017, 00:07

moonbearonmeth wrote:That is literally what dictating the engagement is. Your opponent had a (range) advantage which you nullified by forcing a situation where your battleships were in range and your opponent couldn't get this range advantage back which leads to what I've been trying to say this entire time, if the entire engagement happened at sub-100 range with no unit engaging from ranges further than that (including the Summits) added range would not benefit it.

Nonsense, I didn't nullify the range advantage, he dictated the battle into a sub-100 range battle, because he has higher range and forces me to react, otherwise he would just shoot at me and i could do nothing about it. That is the thing with UEF battles, they force you to come closer, because they have higher range ... And it is certainly easier for the UEF bs to hit things closer to them. You just don't understand how late game naval battles work.

moonbearonmeth wrote:25k HP doesn't leave it a lot of breathing room in a T3 naval engagement.

That is also nonsense, the bc is small and very agile, with good micro it can dodge a lot of shots, even aeon bs, and it is also shielded by your shield boats.

moonbearonmeth wrote:
Yolo- wrote:He can just retreat them and doom aeon bs even more.

I am really going to need you to explain this one.

Aeon bs starts to shoot at BC, you move the bc a bit back and pull the aeon bs even closer to you, making it even easier for your bs to hit it. Could even get in range of your torpedo boats and frigs for extra dps
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby moonbearonmeth » 30 Nov 2017, 01:25

Yolo- wrote:Nonsense, I didn't nullify the range advantage, he dictated the battle into a sub-100 range battle, because he has higher range and forces me to react, otherwise he would just shoot at me and i could do nothing about it. That is the thing with UEF battles, they force you to come closer, because they have higher range

So if my opponent builds auroras and I build mantis I am playing right into the aeon's hands by walking into his auroras while he doesn't kite?
One of us must be going insane because I don't get why you think having a range advantage means you want your enemy to come closer to you and given how you seem to realise that having summits at their max range is a bad thing for the enemy, I don't think it's me.

Yolo- wrote:That is also nonsense, the bc is small and very agile, with good micro it can dodge a lot of shots, even aeon bs, and it is also shielded by your shield boats.

So on one hand we have a small, agile ship that can dodge a lot of shots that can fight Battleships that can be used in conjunction with shields and on the other hand we have a small, agile ship that can dodge a lot of shots that can fight Battleships that can be used in conjunction with shields that is horrible and needs a range buff?????????

Yolo- wrote:Aeon bs starts to shoot at BC, you move the bc a bit back and pull the aeon bs even closer to you, making it even easier for your bs to hit it. Could even get in range of your torpedo boats and frigs for extra dps

So you do understand how kiting works. Then why was this not the issue with the summits? The summits didn't kite, could it be because you had forced them into a situation where the could not kite? Perhaps that is why Robogear elected to tank, deciding to invest a significant amount of mass into Bulwarks so that he could remain in this close range engagement.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby Yolo- » 30 Nov 2017, 02:34

moonbearonmeth wrote:bla bla bla

Honestly I am wasting my time by responding to someone like you. If you are trying to show me how cool of a kid you are and troll my great thread, then please just f*** off to somehwere else. There are surely others that take a liking of throwing bullshit at each other, but in my thread i demand constructive arguments. And for that you need knowledge and experience, which you (and others here) obviously lack.

But to come back to your useless statements: You just can't fucking compare a t3 naval battle with some t1 land battle. How can you even think about something like that. To answer your question: Obviously you are going insane. That second reply is just pure garbage. And do you honestly want to tell me the summit is a kiting unit???

Look, apparently it is hard for you to accept it, but I know what I am talking about, certainly more than others that have posted in this thread so far.
I am a 2k setons navy player, having lots of experience and knowledge about how navy works. I don't need some random 1.1k player to tell me how navy works. So don't just come into this thread soiling it with your nonsense, just because you think for wahtever reason you would know any better than me. Please do us both and the other readers a favor, and stay out of this thread. Your opinion has no value here.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby Strogo » 30 Nov 2017, 04:54

I have an idea for those who want "faction diversity":

Turning Omen into naval version of harb. Example: 40k hp +-, smaller model (not sure if it should be like BC or bigger), DPS without changing (or lower?), range without changing, speed and agility too (otherwise it will be as fast as bc and has more hp), cost 8k.

we discussed this in an AOS chat, and here are some problems that may arise:

- Omen become even more op against t2 naval and in early bs fights
- these changes probably won't resolve problems Omens facing in big fights (but it will be easier to micro and dodge)
- After these changes Tempest will need some love too.
- we should be careful and not make Omen too powerful compared to Neptune (in my example Omen cost 8k vs 7k Nept and has 15k more hp, same hitbox, more range but less dps.)

If I forgot smth, Yolo will add it.
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby biass » 30 Nov 2017, 05:24

While i appreciate trying to keep diversity i don't really see the problem with a small range buff, omen already has to suffer from it being unable to hit too much without careful babysitting as it is and all of these other suggestions form a balance spaghetti that just really isn't worth trying to implement. If you want to add a lil extra spice into the mix, add some small changes to the background stats of the turrets like a faster traverse, or a bigger splash.

I wouldn't try to use limited experience in land games to try and balance late navy though, you know who you are ;D
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby Strogo » 30 Nov 2017, 06:36

=) When I was typing this example in aos chat my thoughts were like "Yolo explained why you can't micro Omens properly in big naval fights and why speed and agility buff won't change anything and there are still posts on forum about speed and agility. wtf? Ok so they want speed, they want agility, they want micro like a god, they want living on the edge between life and death. Ok here is your aeon bolid ;)"

Personally I agree with range buff. But as IceDreamer said:

IceDreamer wrote:Go back to the logic, and you find other paths.
...
What I am saying is, can we have a bit more variety in our thinking? Please...?


And I tried my best =)
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Re: Aeon T3 BS needs range buff to 128! + Shield boats op??

Postby PhilipJFry » 30 Nov 2017, 09:39

the final say on balance is in the hands of the balance team, not the game councilor, trainers, moderators or other random users so please try to stick to the topic and bring your arguments

if you want to convince someone of your idea to change late game navy it should be the balance team and in particular petric and me
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