Balance patch 3684 Feedback Thread

[TheKoopa]

Static flak won't be used because it's static

[Iszh]

I already made very nice new templates i will use them 100% sure! I have already secret plans

[Morax]

Actually, farm, people build mobile flak because BUILD_MORE_FLAK,aka Soviet Pride, told them to!

[Evildrew]

Farmageddon will be your new name my sletje
You know very well sometimes you go t2 acu or t2 air and cant make mobile t2aa.
Static has more hp per mass and therefore has its own merits which supersede mobile flak.
When the t1 bombers come you either have flak or you dont, it doesnt matter which is better by how many fractions of a %

[Farmsletje]

Farmageddon will be your new name my sletje
You know very well sometimes you go t2 acu or t2 air and cant make mobile t2aa.
Static has more hp per mass and therefore has its own merits which supersede mobile flak.
When the t1 bombers come you either have flak or you dont, it doesnt matter which is better by how many fractions of a %

fancy :3

Even if you go t2 acu or t2 air it's still too early to be in need of a stationary flak. If you have t2 air you most likely have more air so you won't have to be that scared of snipes anyway, and a t2 acu can spam t1 aa vs incoming gunships.

All in all i don't think i've ever build a stationary flak for the last 8+ months.

[Evildrew]

In the end whether you do or dont use a unit out of personal preference or lack of knowledge about differences, the unit palette should consist of these tools and not be geared to balance races based on how people prefer to play. I would never spam t1 aa vs 300 t1 bombers, it will never hold up but t1 aa does realky well (too well) vs asf...

[Lieutenant Lich]

Spoiler: show

This is why people play turtle maps like dual crap, where early aggression is a mass donation and cannot work out. Everyone gets to make a template build and should be ok and we flip a coin at 45 mins to see who wins.

Therefore you play 12 the pass which is not any better.

On the topic of flak though, besides my realism clause, there is that which Evildrew stated. Flak did fine against t1 and T2, that's all it was meant to do. The reason T3 is so fast is so that those little flaks can't catch them! besides, if someone strat rushes, they invest quite a lot of mass into 1) RAS 2) T3 air HQ 3) pgens 4) strats and a shitton of energy. if by then you do not have some counter.. boy, you've done something wrong way before the strat came out.

Philip... by 3844 I'd expect humans to develop lasers and teleportation, that is what is expected. What is not expected because it wouldn't be practical is to have flak cannons that are able to snipe planes that fly at super or hyper sonic speeds. Say, a missile to kill that pesky plane after it flies by would be nice and practical and far cheaper to develop. Or a thing called ASF that will intercept the plane before it reaches its destination. Massed interceptors will do, too.

Strat rushes are not seen that often on open 10x10 land maps because the games are either won or lost by the time someone has the eco to make strats, if not earlier. On larger maps like Seton's they are expected and therefore should be prepped for. Point of Reach & the like also see strats sometimes if navy cannot break the stalemate or as a last resort to pull off a win (done that myself, rushed strats and exterminated the enemy team while we were on the brink of defeat).

In other words, roll back this flak change, it should not be present and it screws with balance. Balance was approaching perfection before this.

Spoiler: show

Also, Seraphim splash gun should not be made more expensive. It should be made cheaper and less powerful so it's seen more often. When it appears in the game, it is already too dangerous for an ACU to be in combat because there are percies,
massed harbs/loyalists/bricks, sometimes strats and definitely gunships

[FtXCommando]

On the topic of flak though, besides my realism clause, there is that which Evildrew stated. Flak did fine against t1 and T2, that's all it was meant to do. The reason T3 is so fast is so that those little flaks can't catch them! besides, if someone strat rushes, they invest quite a lot of mass into 1) RAS 2) T3 air HQ 3) pgens 4) strats and a shitton of energy. if by then you do not have some counter.. boy, you've done something wrong way before the strat came out.

Realism in a game where we were expected to land on mars 2 years ago, ok. You aren't rushing RAS to rush strats. Flak isn't some hard counter against strats, I still fail to see why people have this idea that 2 flak means you can't be hit by strats.

Philip... by 3844 I'd expect humans to develop lasers and teleportation, that is what is expected. What is not expected because it wouldn't be practical is to have flak cannons that are able to snipe planes that fly at super or hyper sonic speeds. Say, a missile to kill that pesky plane after it flies by would be nice and practical and far cheaper to develop. Or a thing called ASF that will intercept the plane before it reaches its destination. Massed interceptors will do, too.

You have no conception of what life will be like in 1800 years. Good luck explaining computers and wifi to someone from 200 AD.

Strat rushes are not seen that often on open 10x10 land maps because the games are either won or lost by the time someone has the eco to make strats, if not earlier. On larger maps like Seton's they are expected and therefore should be prepped for. Point of Reach & the like also see strats sometimes if navy cannot break the stalemate or as a last resort to pull off a win (done that myself, rushed strats and exterminated the enemy team while we were on the brink of defeat).

That's great. Problem is that air victories are often all or nothing. Plenty of games where one air slot locks the opposing air slot with 7 or so asfs and then has free reign with a strat that gets 45 kills and decides the game solely because another player was 40 seconds late in their air build.

In other words, roll back this flak change, it should not be present and it screws with balance. Balance was approaching perfection before this.
Also, Seraphim splash gun should not be made more expensive. It should be made cheaper and less powerful so it's seen more often. When it appears in the game, it is already too dangerous for an ACU to be in combat because there are percies,
massed harbs/loyalists/bricks, sometimes strats and definitely gunships

Balance is definitely not approaching perfection. Weren't you one of those guys that hated the controversial changes in 2016? Now balance is approaching perfection?

Phim 2nd gun is meant to be an upgrade you can get around the end of the t2 eco stage. It's like half the Cybran laser cost e-wise and the cost of a t3 mex for a push around the point when t3 units are beginning to show up. It's a niche upgrade that serves to supplement a timed push at a time Phim is supposed to be at their strongest. Also how can you complain about how flak totally crushed the balance for T3 air and then say you can't push because of gunships and strats?

[zeroAPM]

Philip... by 3844 I'd expect humans to develop lasers and teleportation, that is what is expected. What is not expected because it wouldn't be practical is to have flak cannons that are able to snipe planes that fly at super or hyper sonic speeds. Say, a missile to kill that pesky plane after it flies by would be nice and practical and far cheaper to develop. Or a thing called ASF that will intercept the plane before it reaches its destination. Massed interceptors will do, too.

We have, today, completely automatic rotary cannons that can detect, aim, and fire at sea-skimming missiles (radar, meet ground clutter, ground clutter, meet radar) going MUCH faster than any in-game TML all while tracking every single bullet fired in order to correct their aim and maximize the probability to hit.
We are this close to have railguns firing a solid tungsten slug at Mach 7.
Combine the two with a fragmentation payload and suddenly projecting a flack screen in front of a supersonic aircraft's face start to become less of a fantasy (although it might be easier to just skewer the aircraft with a solid shell at that point)

Fun fact, a railgun flack was one of the various projects of WWII Germany.

Spoiler: show

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railgun#History

[Sovietpride]

Actually, farm, people build mobile flak because BUILD_MORE_FLAK,aka Soviet Pride, told them to!

Why thank you.
I also attribute it to my patented method of teaching known as Darwinism.
If you die to shit like gunships or mercies it's your own god damn fault for being that far in without protection.