Balance patch 3684 Feedback Thread

[IceDreamer]

Imo the advantage of the new gun is that while it is firmly t3 in power level, and really will normally need a t3 eco to get, it isnt t3. I can see some fairly shocking comebacks when two players team their ecos to get this upgrade at the mid t2 stage on one of them. 1500 dps + range + splash + oc against t2? Thats bloody scary

[CavemanHost]

It took farms more than 3 minutes to finish the upgrade - and he is a skilled player. I doubt there are many games where you can afford to keep your com standing still in minute 13 to 16+, while putting all your eco into the upgrade, because there is really nothing left ecowise during the upgrade. It was pure luck that he didnt get TMLed.

And it better be a really big advantage if two players cripple there eco just so one slow commander suddenly becomes a super saiyan.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Where has the engies don't break tree groups change gone?

I think it got left or because it took away too much from a skill that differentiates high level verse low level players.

Jagged, is that true?

[KeyBlue]

It took farms more than 3 minutes to finish the upgrade - and he is a skilled player. I doubt there are many games where you can afford to keep your com standing still in minute 13 to 16+, while putting all your eco into the upgrade, because there is really nothing left ecowise during the upgrade. It was pure luck that he didnt get TMLed.

And it better be a really big advantage if two players cripple there eco just so one slow commander suddenly becomes a super saiyan.

You did see dave1/farms was making a t3 mex while doing the upgrade, right? So no, he didn't put all eco in the upgrade.
When he finished it, he still had 2nd/3rd best eco.
So not exactly crippling,

Since t3 mex cost roughly same mass cost as the upgrade, one could probably get it done in 2min or less with some e donation from teammates.

[CavemanHost]

Using Mr. Ecowhore as an example for the affordability of an upgrade isn't exactly representive for its usefulness. Or are you saying, everbody has to play like farms to use that upgrade?

[KeyBlue]

Using Mr. Ecowhore as an example for the affordability of an upgrade isn't exactly representive for its usefulness. Or are you saying, everbody has to play like farms to use that upgrade?

If you use him to prove that it is shit.
Why can't I use him to disprove your arguments?

And yes we should use pro's gameplay to check for affordability of an upgrade. What kind of gameplay would you use otherwise?

[keyser]

just about the sera gun upgrade, i'm just gonna leave that there : content.faforever.com/faf/vault/replay_vault/replay.php?id=6163877

not even beta (so this is old values), so if it was possible to use it before (rarely i agree), the change are going to make it more viable.

you definitely get the upgrade faster than an ML for example, and you can add some nano for extra viability.

not saying they are perfect replays, but tends to show that the upgrade is not as shit as you want to say. (but yes, it is dangerous, require lot of eco.... but you need drawback otherwise would be too good)

[FtXCommando]

Niche upgrade has niche use. Omg this is ridiculous (ง ͠° ͟ل͜ ͡°)ง

Of course you don't get phim double gun every game 100%. You get it precisely because people don't expect it and thus don't really have a way to counter it. It's basically a game over button for phim players that realize their enemy thinks you just have a traditional gun nano com because once you break through those few t2 pd they have nothing to stop you.

Hence, it's the perfect upgrade for a map like hilly where the meta is either eco or t2 push. You don't see t2 unit spam, but you just see a phim com upgrading. So, instead, you just keep upgrading your nice t3 mexes. You assume nothing bad will happen, but something bad does happen.

[CavemanHost]

Using Mr. Ecowhore as an example for the affordability of an upgrade isn't exactly representive for its usefulness. Or are you saying, everbody has to play like farms to use that upgrade?

If you use him to prove that it is shit.
Why can't I use him to disprove your arguments?

And yes we should use pro's gameplay to check for affordability of an upgrade. What kind of gameplay would you use otherwise?

I did not use it to prove that it is "shit", I wasn't even the one who brought it up. And it is not about disproving or proving anything. The changes to the upgrade were made to make it more usable in games. Yet it still has no broader usage after the change, at least that I can see. And noone could answer, in which situations I should use it besides some rare scenarios that don't appear in "normal" games. Pro-level players didn't use it before the change, proving that it is not a good upgrade as it was.

About the pro-level game play: anybody, who is not ecoing like farms, is not gonna get the upgrade in a timeley manner - gametime wise and upgrade-time wise. So what is the change good for, if only the best can take advantage of it?
Noone could name a scenario in what to use it, besides "sera telmazer" blabla. And I'd say it is still exactly that: an upgrade to atempt a snipe. Which for one neglects the splash property of the upgrade and also doesn't give it much versatility. Which was what I hoped for in the change for the upgrade.

I'm gonna lookout for people to use it and I'm gonna try it myself, but I doubt I will see it more often. There are just too much compromises to make.

[IceDreamer]

Oh stop using absolutes, all things are relative. It is better than before, therefore we WILL see it more often. Even if that is only rarely, it is still less rarely. Also, just the impressive looking patch notes mean we will see people experimenting with it. So its a step forward. So stop harping on lol