My thoughts on the new patch.

[Nepty]

Can't we just give them a flat, heavy-handed, no-nonsense nerf for once? Cut Mantis speed in half or something, I dunno...

Finally someone else besides me arrives at that conclusion. It's Never happening. Although that's the absolute answer to fixing Cybran. People rather play around structure HP and air units. Me and my brother have been saying that for almost a decade. A mantis nerf was all that was needed to be honest. All this other BS wasn't an issue to me. Real honest.

Option 1: Mantis HP is now 250.
Option 2: Mantis speed is now same as MA-12 Striker.

I'll trade all the Cybran 'changes' in the new patch for just one of those options. That's just how serious it is. I dunno why the Mantis is the most untouchable unit in the game. Mantis fan boys maybe? I think so.

The unit is too fast. It's only 0.2 slower than a light assault bot. Affects 1vs1 games heavily. Allows Cybran to reinforce an location faster than any other race in the game. Fast speed equal = low HP. Simple video game logic, yet cybran breaks the rules.

I expect these stupid responses from the so called 'good' players:
"Only noobs complain about the Mantis"
"You can't counter the Mantis?"
"Git gud"
"If I could do it, you can do it."

Then they wonder why they're stuck fighting the same 3 opponents for 6 years in ranked. There you go.

[Mephi]

"Only noobs complain about the Mantis"
"You can't counter the Mantis?"
"Git gud"
"If I could do it, you can do it."

my part here is done

[Nepty]

"Only noobs complain about the Mantis"
"You can't counter the Mantis?"
"Git gud"
"If I could do it, you can do it."

my part here is done

When FAF is no longer here make sure you look back at this post. All I'll say, and you proved me right.

[Mel_Gibson]

@Zock - Did you even consider the impact this would have on buffing one of Cybran's strongest strategies? I wouldn't be surprised if not, it's not the kind of thing that immediately jumps to mind, but it's a massive buff. People need better anti-Mazer protection in place of that HP, or do we finally get the Anti-Teleport towers from BlackOps?

Looks more like a telemazer nerf to me, (assuming people mostly go T3 mazer com, which is what i see most) You're either tele safe or you're not. If you're not, no amount of HP will save you, if you are then cybran com takes an HP hit that cannot be mitigated, whereas the defending com can add plenty of cheap hp with overlapping shields. Not to mention if you really want to be safe you can add shield or nano, while again, cybran mazer com can't add HP.

This also nerfs pretty hard trying to tele smds or other targets for obvious reasons. And makes you more vulnerable if tele succeeds and you try to tele out. And regen + HP nerf means you can't tele as quickly again if you are successful.

Anyone caught out by tele just needs to learn to put down better protection.

Perhaps people will start going mazer gun rather than mazer t3 but this means you don't have to overlap shields as much and telecom can't build shields/aa before teleing out if needs be.

[biass]

Then they wonder why they're stuck fighting the same 3 opponents for 6 years in ranked. There you go.

Not hard to know
Everyone too busy complaining on forum instead of playing and playing reactor game

besides i think mantis suck

[Kalvirox]

besides i think mantis suck

Hmm, can't take straight up engagements with them anymore like you used to be able to .
People got better at defending and now raiding is less effective. Sad times.

[lilSidlil]

Stop broke units balance! Ahwasa and czar, beetless in transport, aeon tmd... what next time? Your ultimate goal looks like: equalize all units so that they are identical, different faction should have different features.

[Inquisitor]

Important to note is that the goal is rather to make it easier to attack an ACU with convential means, but that will inevitable also lead to ACUs being easier to snipe too. However both are forms of aggressive play, which teamgames currently lack of, and this changes attempt to improve. It's a double edged sword since ACUs are also used to attack itself (as pointed out here in length by you), and making them easier to snipe will reduce this too, but..

..people who dislike the change seem to focus so much on how much harder it gets to attack with ACUs, that they forget that it'll also become easier to attack ACUs with this change.

Ok, I get what you mean, but the problem we face is that ACUs are really difficult to kill with land units (especially T2 units) but they are also very easily sniped by air units. Lowering the HP (and regen) bonus they can get in the early game will make them even more easily sniped by air units, and it wont make much difference for the tanks.

You are totally missing the point about ACU and tanks balance. The thing that makes ACUs pretty invulnerable against land pushes (with no other ACUs involved) is the ability to OC. Thats why air units (or even navy) do not have any problem at killing ACUs that arent under shield. So, the solution to that isnt a HP and regen nerf, but an OC nerf (which I would have nothing against).

You also state that T2 suit was a must have (which means it was OP). I can agree to that, but ACUs still needs HP and regen to play offensive roles in the early game (before shield and nano upgrades are a possibility). So unless you revert T2 suits to the previous point, or modify gun upgrades so it provides the missing HP/regen, I forsee turtling being the only good option in teamgames and also, a much more cautius use of the ACU in ladder games.

[Zock]

You are totally missing the point about ACU and tanks balance. The thing that makes ACUs pretty invulnerable against land pushes (with no other ACUs involved) is the ability to OC. Thats why air units (or even navy) do not have any problem at killing ACUs that arent under shield. So, the solution to that isnt a HP and regen nerf, but an OC nerf (which I would have nothing against).

I am totally not missing it, a change to the OC system was planned for this patch (mostly in regards to t3 and the upcoming changes to it, but also teamgames), but so far no one was aviable to code it, so it's on hold until someone has time and skills to do so.

While it is very true that OC has far more impact against land units this doesn't mean the t2 changes are bad though. The problem that it gets easier to get sniped by air (or rather: corsairs and to a lesser degree nothas) remains indeed, but it has to be seen if that downside is bigger than the upsides from the change. Especially when we look at upcoming changes to other ACU upgrades, mobile shields and more, which i believe are a much better approach to help offensive ACUs than t2 (which is used just as much by defensive ACUs)


About the telemazer situation, its true that its a cybran buff, as suggested. Its also true that its a cybran nerf, as suggested. It's also true that telemazer in general could see some improvement to be a more versatile, but less annoying upgrade, as suggested. But this is a matter for a new thread.

[Voodoo]

The Acu is too weak! Let's go back to supcom vanila where the Acu was able to shoot at air

Also hoblites should be able to do this as we are talking about rockets.