Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

[Apofenas]

Scathis: It is in a very complicated spot. But nerf cybran recieved with Scathis is huge in t3 arty balance. Cybran have worst t3 arty which has only one advantage over other factions - AOE. And it's completely miserable with all drawbacks - worst range, worst accuracy, worst dps, worst HP, worst shields.

The change to scathis would be ok if it was followed by this:

Emissary: range 900->750
Howatham: range 825->750
Disruptor: range 700->750
damage 4600->3080
ROF 10 sec->6.7 sec
veterancy: X+500 hp to every veterancy boost

Spoiler: show

my personal opinion on Scathis:
-mass cost: 85k-> 130k
-range: 330->750
-ROF: 1.9 sec->3 sec
-DPS: 1578->1000
Practicly it would have a bit more DPS than 2 disruptors without t3 pgens and a bit less with t3 pgens, but it would be mobile, more accurate and less vulnerable arty due to more HP and no t3 pgens around it.

Banger: Yes, i see every other flak now has same speed as unit it should support. Even though Rhino is main cybran t2 unit most of the time, the Hoplite and Wagner are still very good options. Flak is more important to them as they are much more vulnerable to air units.

T2/T3 regen: RIP agressive ACU plays. You gone into the red - you will stay like this for next 10 minutes... untill t3 appears and gun-t2 ACU becomes invalible option. It WON'T make nano/shields more used, but it will promote sitting with ACU at base in safety.

This is the worst change in this patch and would have biggest affect on most of games in FAF.

[Iszh]

I ve been complaining about the t2 t3 engi nerf because i told as well this will be a huge disadvantage especially for uef. But i wanted to give it a chance for testing. It makes sniping UEF even more easy. In the testing games it was really like once you re down with your hp you will not restore it within 10 minutes. I am afraid that it will slow down games since agressive acus are punished and not rewarded.

Scathis change i only do not like because it is out of any logic. I was raging somewhere before about useless cybran buff when faf appeared. Here we have another one. Scathis was the super exp of cybran like all other factions have. 250k mass, it was a mobile mavor with 80km range. Just for the sake lets do something to make cybran more cool it was buffed to a lategame overpowered t3 arti. My advise here simply take this whole change back and make it a super exp again. Just imagine setons clutch you got a sam wall you lost all coasts and you try to get a super exp paragon mavor or super nuke. What will cybran do? They dont have such a unit anymore ... please seriously please stop this messing arround with cybran units buff them here and there and reset the values to be a t4 gameender again. It is anyways useless with the new valus and op on smaller maps with the old values. Thats a pain to watch how cybran units when some people dont like them are changed into toys which are borderline op in some situations. STOP IT!

The t3 arti values are no reason to make scathis an alternative to t3 arti because "it is the worst". Can cybran people finally accept not the have the best unit or a super alternative at all positions?

[Exotic_Retard]

the thing with t3 arty is that some are way better than others for almost no cost difference.
aeon > seraphim > uef > cybran
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/un ... 02,URB2302
you can just compare the 2 arties and explain how 3600 mass makes up for all those differences.

the worst ones is range, because it means that on 20x20 maps cybran simply cant reach the enemy, and if it can be built on the edge, you just build an aeon arty just out of range and they cant shoot you.

its not that cybran should have the best everything, its that there is no sense to have such a huge difference in performance, for units with exactly the same role, and price.
and they are expensive units which makes it worse, and they have a snowball effect, and its actually kinda cheese, and the list goes on. its incredible how silly this is

(ah well fixed in equilibrium)

but yeah, i agree with iszh here, give the unit a new distinct role that isnt t3 arty, either a true mobile exp, or a true exp arty (in eq its focused on being a mobile arty, so that you see it more often in game, and so its more unique than a mavor clone)

have a nice day <3

[IceDreamer]

the thing with t3 arty is that some are way better than others for almost no cost difference.
aeon > seraphim > uef > cybran
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/un ... 02,URB2302
you can just compare the 2 arties and explain how 3600 mass makes up for all those differences.

the worst ones is range, because it means that on 20x20 maps cybran simply cant reach the enemy, and if it can be built on the edge, you just build an aeon arty just out of range and they cant shoot you.

its not that cybran should have the best everything, its that there is no sense to have such a huge difference in performance, for units with exactly the same role, and price.
and they are expensive units which makes it worse, and they have a snowball effect, and its actually kinda cheese, and the list goes on. its incredible how silly this is

(ah well fixed in equilibrium)

but yeah, i agree with iszh here, give the unit a new distinct role that isnt t3 arty, either a true mobile exp, or a true exp arty (in eq its focused on being a mobile arty, so that you see it more often in game, and so its more unique than a mavor clone)

have a nice day <3

So EQ's Scathis is sort of along the lines of a 20-strong group of T3 Mobile Arty in one unit? That kind of feel? Almost, in fact, like a high-firing Fatboy?

[Exotic_Retard]

i guess it could be likened to a fatboy
except one that has to deploy, has emp and (a lot) less dps, moves faster, can shoot from underwater, more fragile, no shield, no 1500dps direct fire, ect.

its more of a support unit; its effectiveness is best with a t3 army and on its own it doesnt do that much damage, not great for taking out shielded bases, can support navy

so yeah i guess there are a couple of differences, hope that clears it up for you
http://equilibrium.x10host.com/changelog/#t4land

[Morax]

Banger: Yes, i see every other flak now has same speed as unit it should support. Even though Rhino is main cybran t2 unit most of the time, the Hoplite and Wagner are still very good options. Flak is more important to them as they are much more vulnerable to air units.

THIS.

Can't tell you how much I love packs of stealth hoplites.... I was really mad you decided to base the speed of the t2 flak on the slowest t2 ground unit when it should match the fastest and keep up with all of them. I feel micro-managing armies to ensure flak is with them will be VERY annoying.

[Kalvirox]

Morax. Are you drag racing your armies? If you are talking about using hoplites with flak and that the flak will get left behind.. yes it will as you rally your units to the front. But hopefully your hoplite micro will be good enough such that you retreat when the enemy comes close. In which case the flak will be able to catch up easily. Unless you are able to push large distances it shouldn't be too much of a problem. That's what I find at the moment when I use flak, as I rally it across the map they all bunch up at the back of the army and all get to the battle at the same. time.

[Bittered]

To those complaining about beetles:
Have you yet considered that having to shoot down 2 transports in the space of a few seconds is harder then shooting down only one?

They are harder to shoot. But their landing pathfinding is soooo bad. I played beta and tried beetle snipes with beetles split across t1 transports. I ordered them to land next to ACU in base. They spread across and all landed outside of the base ...

Dunno if you beetle snipe, but in most cases multiple readjustments of landing points are needed. Group of transports just fails in that, and I am a single-core entity and cant continually micro each of them simultaniously.

You need ACU to stand still in the middle of nowhere to pull off multi-transport beetle snipe. Gl with that.

[angus000]

To those complaining about beetles:
Have you yet considered that having to shoot down 2 transports in the space of a few seconds is harder then shooting down only one?

They are harder to shoot. But their landing pathfinding is soooo bad. I played beta and tried beetle snipes with beetles split across t1 transports. I ordered them to land next to ACU in base. They spread across and all landed outside of the base ...

Dunno if you beetle snipe, but in most cases multiple readjustments of landing points are needed. Group of transports just fails in that, and I am a single-core entity and cant continually micro each of them simultaniously.

You need ACU to stand still in the middle of nowhere to pull off multi-transport beetle snipe. Gl with that.

Just give them 2 individual landing orders, it's not that hard...

However, if t2 mexes are gonna have an hp nerf in the part 2 of the patch, then maybe bettles could use a dmg nerf instead of changing how much space they take in transports.

[Morax]

Morax. Are you drag racing your armies?

80-100 apm says yes