Faction Diversity

[Zock]

I had to double check the original title and post of this thread.

I'm always really amazed how people can turn any thread into a titan one.

Indeed. Thereforce I deleted the titan discussion (and i deleted a couple of posts without any proper content before, and will keep doing so - in case someone is wondering where their post went) that wasn't offering anything that wasn't said already anyway.

I'll respond to the actual topic to the thread when i find time, but it is definitely some important critic that deserves an answer.

[Nepty]

I honestly don't understand why people are freaking out over structure HP. Yes, I've read the replies on the subject, but none makes sense to me. Ironically it's adding good diversity. I guess people are afraid of change, or mad because UEF is finally getting the attention it deserves.

Here's how I see the structure HP change:

UEF: "We build stuff blocky and reinforced. Heavy composite armor is our style." (Official)

Cybran: "We have high tech structures. They're very sophisticated and complex, leaving little room for armor..."

Aeon & Seraphim: "We have standard structure armor. We have access to advance shield generators for additional protection."

Makes sense to me. I love the HP changes. I'm even perfectly okay if Cybran power structures gave an additional +10% (or +20%) energy for being so fragile (if it's necessary). Have some imagination. Add a little magic to the game. Factions are Factions now.

[Bittered]

What comes to my mind is bombing t1 pgens and dropping t1 artie. Since the changes to hp, whenever I play the teamgame I will think like that: I have t1 drop/bombers. Who do I go for? Cybran, obviously. Whom do I avoid? UEF, with their beefy stuff. So ... Cybran on the map becomes a scape goat that catches every drop/bombing one, and UEF just laughes because noone reasonable will go for them? Sounds like a lot of salt for Cybrans to me.

I imagine in team with all UEF you will get punished by enemy team for being the only Cybran. Cause why not? Easiest target anyways. Is it the real point of faction diversity? Being prioritiesed only due to having faction with more fragile buildings?

Besides the tradeoff for Cybran has always been elasticity and cheese. What the tradeoff for squishy buildings? Whats the way to cheese it out/ cover for that? Always attack/ never let enemy to attack you? Do or die?

[Nepty]

......

Besides the tradeoff for Cybran has always been elasticity and cheese. What the tradeoff for squishy buildings? Whats the way to cheese it out/ cover for that? Always attack/ never let enemy to attack you? Do or die?

I dunno, but I have some ideas for the weak buildings:

1) Cybran buildings auto regenerate HP very slowly (2% of maximum HP every second)
2) Efficient power plants (+10% power)
3) Efficient mass pumps (+5% Mass)
4) E.D.5. Cloaks buildings that are near a stealth generator (I'm joking)
5) All structures can assist like a mantis ( short range )
6) All power plants are naturally stealth to radar. ( I like this )
7) Power plants are not volatile.
8) All structures are not volatile.
9) Structures can move and deploy. ( A scripting nightmare)
10) Cybran building wrecks start at 75% instead of 50% when rebuilding a dead structure. (OP?)

I could go on for years. Imagination for the win. Choose one. I like number 6.

[IceDreamer]

Besides the tradeoff for Cybran has always been elasticity and cheese. What the tradeoff for squishy buildings? Whats the way to cheese it out/ cover for that? Always attack/ never let enemy to attack you? Do or die?

What's the trade-off? Being the best faction overall, and by some margin? Seems a fair trade-off to me! Cybran currently has next to no actual weaknesses. This would introduce on that requires the Cybran players to actually think about instead of waving their hands and saying there's no need to bother with it.

I also think Nepty is on the right track. If it turns out Cybran are too weak overall with this change (A situation I physically can't actually comprehend, the faction is just too good), you can add some cool stuff on.

[Hawkei]

I imagine in team with all UEF you will get punished by enemy team for being the only Cybran. Cause why not? Easiest target anyways. Is it the real point of faction diversity? Being prioritiesed only due to having faction with more fragile buildings?

If you're the Cybran then you have one awesome cheese platter to serve up. Crackers anyone?

[BushMaster]

I also think Nepty is on the right track. If it turns out Cybran are too weak overall with this change (A situation I physically can't actually comprehend, the faction is just too good), you can add some cool stuff on.

No. Bycran already has enough cool stuff, lets give the other factions some love in the form of cool stuff.

[Firestarter]

I have to say the eco structures having HP which is deliberately tuned to make some critial eco structures whose location is pre-determined become up to 50%(!) weaker against TMLs (1 to kill rather than 2) does seem extremely drastic! Especially as most players will change their behaviour to match - ie "he's cybran, so mex snipes all day" and amplify further the change.

However, having read the above thread, I love some of the suggestions about keeping the lower HP but adding some SMALL interesting feature eg stealth for mexes (marginal bonus at best since everyone knows where the mass points are, but it does suit the faction), or *slightly* reduced build or running cost, or small self-repair. Perhaps slightly increased adjacency bonus could be another.

I also agree that at some point you may wish to add FX to make things a bit more intuitive, and that the other factions would also benefit from this. Obvious examples would be much extended vision, HP and regen, or shields (rather than actual extra HP) for some faction(s) which I imagine are not too difficult to add?

[Nepty]

No. 'Cybran' already has enough cool stuff, lets give the other factions some love in the form of cool stuff.

Seraphim could take take the 'Protoss' (StarCraft) route:

For example Tech 1 Power plants have 600 HP. We could half the HP to 300, and give 300 SP to its personal shields. The shields deactivate during extreme lower power, but consumes no power when active.

Known side effects:
1) Your entire base will glow bright blue from personal shield structures. (Not pretty)
2) Low power would make the entire base vulnerable! (O_O)

Scared to play Seraphim now... Aww hell never mind then. It was a good try at diversity.

A stupid silly idea:
Aeon would have air mexes, and air mass storage. How would this work? Easy, Engineers/ACU will build the Mex on the surface.
After its built it will hover high above the ground. It can only be attacked by AA and Air units. A destroyed air mex/air mass storage wreck will fall straight down. (So diverse FAF players will say WTF). Air mexes should toggle between land and air modes?

Known side effects:
1)You can't repair air mexes and air mass storage.
2)Hard to protect T3 air mexes from ASF swarm.
3)You can't shield air mexes.

[Morax]

I missed this thread, but thank you, Blodir. I'm glad more folks other than myself are not happy about the way the balance patch is going.

Perhaps we're all so used to this game now that we don't appreciate the diversity that already exists? I certainly do not play each faction like the other in its current state. All I can say is why the hell has no one tried to change the Titan, Mongoose, Blaze, etc in this patch? Fiddling with structure HP seems kind of silly as there is the amazing "build over dead structure if opponent attack fails and you are halfway back to stable again."