The Cerberus

[MrSprengmeister]

Well, I guess all of you know that the Cerberus T2 defense is a little unterpowered. So I want to show to you guys why it is and what my solution is.

Quick stats for those who don´t really know or are to lazy to open the Unit database:

2000HP, 100dps, 480 Mass cost

So, it is the cheapest T2 PD, but has also the lowest damage. Let´s compare cost to other T2 PD´s. the Oblivion costs 528 mass and has 150 dps.
That means the Cerberus costs around 10% less, but has 33% less damage. The problem is, that its the same with the other PD´s too. The Triad has more health and the Uttaushala too. I don´t even need to speak of AoE. All T2 PD´s are pretty much the same, exept the Cerberus.

For example:

If you go one on one with a obsidian against it, it´s going to be almost a mutual K.O. even though it it fires so much earlier.
3 Pillers will kill it no problem whatsoever. The same with 2 Rhinos or Wagners.

Well honestly, it inst even mass equivalent. Everybody mentions it, nobody wants to fix it.

So here is my very simple solution:
just give it around 120 dps instead of 100
Simple as that. Ok now I want to hear you opinion and/or your solutions.

[Myxir]

the reasons why it isn't "fixed" (changed) is because the pds don't waste any dps by overkill (aeon pd wastes more than 50% of its dps when it kills one t1 unit per shot) and won't miss. the second reason is that it does not kill any reclaim like uef/aeon pd do with their splash, what usually benefits the defender

[keyser]

and because it is part of the drawback of the faction

[Astrofoo]

The last weak Cybran unit. Better buff it! Cybran is losing way too many games on ladder. I hear they're losing 50% of all games on ladder right now!!!

[MrSprengmeister]

The last weak Cybran unit. Better buff it! Cybran is losing way too many games on ladder. I hear they're losing 50% of all games on ladder right now!!!

Seriously? but anyway. I don´t care if a unit sometimes kills a wreck , and I wouldn´t count it as a factor for balance. Overkill is a small factor, but its only against lonely T1 units and for groups these PD´s have AoE.

Another question: Why does a faction need a drawback? To be more exact most of there units are slightly inferior to their counterparts, but for that you have more flexible multipurpose units.

My Idea was just to make the Cerberus to perform the same as the others.

[Ithilis_Quo]

Its not some wreack its all wreacks. Aeon destroy most of mass from spam. Cybran have all of them. Its huge bonus (if you alive that push of course)

On the otherhand cant use groundfire to abuse artifical range.

Draftback are important for have multiple faction, so they are not only reskin of same.

Cybran definitly not need buff

[Astrofoo]

I was making a joke about Cybran being only faction played on ladder. Therefore if every game is Cybran vs Cybran then Cybran loses 50% of games and wins 50% of games.

[briang]

I don´t care if a unit sometimes kills a wreck, and I wouldn´t count it as a factor for balance. Overkill is a small factor, but its only against lonely T1 units and for groups these PD´s have AoE.

You don't consider wasting tons of possible mass income a balance factor? You're missing some very simple concepts here.

Another question: Why does a faction need a drawback? To be more exact most of there units are slightly inferior to their counterparts, but for that you have more flexible multipurpose units.

My Idea was just to make the Cerberus to perform the same as the others.

Why would the faction with the best MML also have the best point defense? It isn't possible for the Cerberus to perform as well as the others, if you gave it the same DPS/Mass numbers and raised it a little bit it would be better. If you really don't understand why the factions can't just be uniform I don't know why you're posting here. Sorry for the bluntness but seriously...

Why don't we just make every unit for every faction perform in the exact same manner? Because that would create a retarded game with boring and undiverse gameplay. Cybran PD is weak because Viper is so strong.

[MrSprengmeister]

Sometimes I actually think that people don´t want to understand what my point is... but anyway

If you run your army directly into a firebase and basically giving him mass presents, guess who´s fault is it? I guess it has nothing to do with game balance...

next thing: I never said that I want to make all faction uniform or even close. I want just to write down what so many people mention and show all the time. And now everyone disagrees because they think that Cybrans are OP in general. Or any faction is OP. I haven´t yet found a faction that is OP. And guess why? A faction that is OP doesn´t simply exist! My goal is to help out solving the last issues in overall game balance by slight adjustments. But now back to topic:

A T2 PD that cost 480 Mass and mutual K.O.´s against a T2 tank that costs 360 Mass is quite ridiculous. Aren´t PD´s meant to defend a Point better than units that are mobile and can go anywhere, at least mass for mass? The other factions PD´s are better or equivalent, except the Cerberus. I don´t want to make it the best PD, I want to close the gap to the others, so that it still is the "worst" PD but not with a massive disadvantage. You also say that Vipers are strong or in other words OP. Or is it? All MML´s are able to overwhelm TMD mass for mass. The Viper is just slightly more mass effective than all the others. There "role" is the exact same, there way how they do it is diferent. But there effectiveness are relatively close together. But enough of the Viper.

Ok now how about just increasing it by 15 dps?
If anyone has a better Idea post it, and when somebody wants to discuss more fast and precisely then talk to me. just write down a TS server and time and I will be there.

[Zoram]

The Cybran T2PD really isn't that bad. Sure it's weaker but it's fast too build and fires extremely fast compared to the others, which makes it quite good at wiping T1 spam.

And the balance of the game is built around factions having pros & cons. A con (weaker pd relative to other pds) is compensated by a pro. Units can't be compared to their counterpart in isolation of the rest of the factions units.