Paragon cost need to be adjusted

[Apofenas]

Any game ender is OP. They are called game enders for that, no?

If you manage to build any game ender withoug anyone knowing that, you will win. But for Paragon you need more time to build it and far more time to use what it gives. Yes after 5-7 minutes after you built paragon you start winning the game. But with Mavor or Yolona you start doing that right after you built them... and you get them out faster...and they win Paragon assuming both opponents are in even situation and know how to scout.

[biass]

biass - the bigger the map - the less chances that u find paragon building at early stage - whcih could give u a chance to build mavor or prepare the snipe. so non "kids" players always do a good defence of para build place - so there is no easy way to kill this.

increasing paragon price will also increase its build time - so it will give more chances to other players to kill it before done.

most commentors saying stupid things about mavor (but only uef has mavor, what about sera\cybran) mavor cost and build time is huge. starting mavor if u are uef is senseless if paragon is more than 50% already. if you are cybran you have no any super arty at all to kill paragon fast.

this is essential to increase price\time for paragon to fix this.
+25% in mass and +5-10% in energy

as variant B make limit of output Mass and Energy from single para to 3000 mass and 5 million energy.

I think if somehow a paragon is not scouted the builder deserves to win,

also maybe not in noob games but putting all eco into a para means no eco for other things, resulting in a huge loss of air, etc

My suggestion, t3 air scouts :^)

[IceDreamer]

Paragon is completely fine, for reasons outlines by many already.

[zeroAPM]

Any game ender is OP. They are called game enders for that, no?

If you manage to build any game ender [...] But with Yolona you start doing that right after you built them...

Fixed.

[briang]

I've been itching to get in the mix here. A lot of people here have no experience with the realities of late game. For only 25k mass more than the mavor the para is clearly the ultimate value. The mavor finishing first guarantees nothing. And game enders and are never started at precisely the same time. There are so many other factors than eco and time.

[Apofenas]

So, by experience of "realities of late game" you mean the experience of ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶m̶o̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶w̶a̶t̶e̶r̶ setons late game? Oh please, it's you who has no real experience than.

Not so long ago i played like 10 FFA games on Gentleman's reef with one tactic - don't expand, eco up till 500-600 mass income and make game ender. I lost only one game, can guess which game ender i had? If i built Mavor or Yolona, i won once i got it first. It doesn't matter if you get your game ender one a minute later or 15 minutes later, it will get attacked and destroyed before/some time after it was finished assuming your opponent knows how to scout and correctly set priorities.

You can't defend your Paragon from Mavor exept killing it first. Which means you need to get your Paragon 5-6 minutes before to build something from it. If you did that, it means you had decent advantage and could win a game with other game ender or without them at all.

[briang]

Wow FFA with gentleman's agreement no rush? If you take 5 minutes to build your first arty after the para you are awful. You are still assuming equal eco and sane start times which doesn't make any sense. Not to mention that you can defend a finishing Para from a mavor without much effort.

If you can find me 10 ladder games with game enders in the last 2 months you can say Seton's is irrelevant. In reality it is the only map that really is relevant.

[theeggroll]

I actually disagree briang, the 5 minutes to make an article after paragon seems reasonable. Once you finish the paragon people normally don't have INSANE amounts of BP yet. Whenever I make one in campaign I spend the first 2-3 minutes getting the necessary BP so that I can build whatever I want in like 2 seconds. In terms of late game, I think coop works just as well as sentons lmao

[briang]

If you don't have the BP ready you're doing it wrong. Past time I built a para on Seton's I had arty and second para within 2 minutes. I refuse to even consider that your opinion is based on games vs AI... if I did I'd probably explode.

[theeggroll]

Replay pretty please. I imagine that could happen quickly but two minutes is absolute bullshit.