Paragon cost need to be adjusted

[Tokyto]

My turn i guess: Fixed in Equilibrium.

[Apofenas]

Mavor and Salvation have similiar cost and usage. Exept Salvation is obselite. It's weaker than any of t3 arty or mavor for one reason: it can't break through shields as effective, as other arties do.

Arty has all damage focussed in one shell with big AOE, which allows it to do decent amount of damage to a lot of shields at once. Salvation has its damage in very spreaded 36 projectiles, which can't affect more than one shield. So heavy shielding with mobile shields will do just fine holding against 200k unit. So what's the point in building it when you can: 1) make 3 Emissary instead which start doing damage far earlier; 2) make Paragon a bit later and spam high cost units like crazy.

In 99% cases, Aeon game ender stage is make paragon, spam Salvations, CZARs and nukes out of it. That's not only because Paragon is strong, but also because Salvation is weak.

It has similiar issue like Mavor had before its damage got adjusted. I agree it has bad unit design and i'd like it to be reworked into t3 stationary arty with range similiar to Scathis, cost similiar to Novax and sufficient damage (may be with shield disruptor ability). It has all stats for being a good anty-mobile unit artilery: high ROF, good accuracy and huge affect area.

I dislike how it's fixed in equilibrium, but concept there is way better than in FAF.

Any way back to the topic. I don't see reason for adjusting Paragon price. Yes, you can make it in corner so nobody can notice and utilize its max potential and win a game, so you can do with any game ender. There is a reason they are called game enders. I had an FFA where i built Mavor and killed 5/5 enemy Paragons and a bunch of Salvations within 7 minutes, because i wasn't scouted at building stage. So nerf Mavor now?

Paragon is most expensive game ender, has least HP and can't do damage on its own.

[diamondxp]

So your entire argument about making para is that the enemy won't scout it? what happens when they do?

your reply could be correct if all factions had paragon (like TML) IF u missed aeon paragon building u are dead after 5 min it is ready.
i repeat after paragon is ready before being scouted:
variant A
1) spam another paragons 2-3-4-5
2) spam experimentals by everything u have
3) spam arties, nukes, sacu and shields
=game over for the enemy=

variant B
u have managed to build paragon, made arties and experimentals but WOW enemy sniped ur paragon and u have not made second before (usually paying for that with everything he has like t3\t4 bombers, sacus\experimentals.
Whats next? u have build enough to clean enemy base so he could not build anything worth anymore.
=game over for the enemy=

for paragon "arty snipers" paragon is same cost to mavor and speed arty, so if it started long before them - pragon player will be able to kill these mavors and so on before they go online. So the only type of arties which can kill paragon before it is finished are simple t3 arties, which are very effective cost 3x lower price to para\mavor BUT their range is not enough on maps of 20km and more.

So if enemy does not have arties there are few options to snipe paragon far - 1) bomber snipe, czar drop 2)tele sacu snipe 3) nuke snipe - all of them require much time to prepare, failed attempt to snipe =
=game over for the enemy= since he lost time,mass, units.

This is why i sure paragon is too cheap for benefits it gives. It must be most expensive building in game. now it costs like good t4 arty or 3 simple t3 arties.

[diamondxp]

My turn i guess: Fixed in Equilibrium.

how? any details?

[biass]

So your entire argument about making para is that the enemy won't scout it? what happens when they do?

your reply could be correct if all factions had paragon (like TML) IF u missed aeon paragon building u are dead after 5 min it is ready.
i repeat after paragon is ready before being scouted:
variant A
1) spam another paragons 2-3-4-5
2) spam experimentals by everything u have
3) spam arties, nukes, sacu and shields
=game over for the enemy=

variant B
u have managed to build paragon, made arties and experimentals but WOW enemy sniped ur paragon and u have not made second before (usually paying for that with everything he has like t3\t4 bombers, sacus\experimentals.
Whats next? u have build enough to clean enemy base so he could not build anything worth anymore.
=game over for the enemy=

for paragon "arty snipers" paragon is same cost to mavor and speed arty, so if it started long before them - pragon player will be able to kill these mavors and so on before they go online. So the only type of arties which can kill paragon before it is finished are simple t3 arties, which are very effective cost 3x lower price to para\mavor BUT their range is not enough on maps of 20km and more.

So if enemy does not have arties there are few options to snipe paragon far - 1) bomber snipe, czar drop 2)tele sacu snipe 3) nuke snipe - all of them require much time to prepare, failed attempt to snipe =
=game over for the enemy= since he lost time,mass, units.

This is why i sure paragon is too cheap for benefits it gives. It must be most expensive building in game. now it costs like good t4 arty or 3 simple t3 arties.

I almost have no idea what you're saying xD

If a mavor and paragon is built at the same speed, the mavor can shoot through aeon shields and destroy it before you can get another game ender online xD

Paragon should not be balanced towards kids who do not scout properly xD

[theeggroll]

so you pour all resources into a para, your enemy makes a mavor. Both things get scouted. who will win? hmmmmmm. The mavor will destroy paragon very quickly, and lets say the pour equal amount of resources into strats as you do paragon and they manage to snipe it, they still have all their BP and all their resources (since there wasnt a nuclear explosion in the middle of their base) and they also the ability to continue producing. Sorry but these hypothetical situations you are throwing out are not very good, and a solid counter to the paragon will most likely kill it, sorry to burst your bubble bud. (get it, burst your bubble, like shields and the paragon under them )

[diamondxp]

biass - the bigger the map - the less chances that u find paragon building at early stage - whcih could give u a chance to build mavor or prepare the snipe. so non "kids" players always do a good defence of para build place - so there is no easy way to kill this.

increasing paragon price will also increase its build time - so it will give more chances to other players to kill it before done.

most commentors saying stupid things about mavor (but only uef has mavor, what about sera\cybran) mavor cost and build time is huge. starting mavor if u are uef is senseless if paragon is more than 50% already. if you are cybran you have no any super arty at all to kill paragon fast.

this is essential to increase price\time for paragon to fix this.
+25% in mass and +5-10% in energy

as variant B make limit of output Mass and Energy from single para to 3000 mass and 5 million energy.

[TheKoopa]

first time ever I saw someone call paragon OP

[Morax]

Blame Salvation for being shit unit instead of Paragon being good unit. I saw this unit a lot during phantom games... and could defend from 2 at once without shield assist and more with shield assist. On the other hand it's almost impossible to defend from a single Mavor and that's very critical when it shoots unfinished Paragon.

If Salvation would do a better job in turtle war, it would be 1st choice as reaction to Mavor.

Brinstar hates you for hating on the Salvation

[diamondxp]

first time ever I saw someone call paragon OP

its OP relative to its price only. also para makes senseless to build speed arty first which is the same price.
para must be nerfed or cost adjusted.