Seraphim Leverage - better gameplay & character for Seraphim

[Korbah]

It is clear that Seraphim didn't receive the care and attention the other 3 races did when it came to racial design.

A lot of seraphim units are fairly generic. There's also fewer units. This can mean that seraphim has fewer gameplay options and some of it's gameplay feels generic.

I wanted to change seraphim have more character & gameplay options without:
1. Adding new units
2. Dramatically buffing the race to be OP
3. Taking away the interesting units/strategies they already have
4. Ignore Naval until I'm happy with air/land changes

The problem comes into play most obviously in T2/3 and that's what I've initially worked on. Here's the current list of changes:


**Updated 28/12/15 - v3 Mod available**

Seraphim Leverage v3 Changelog:

T1:

Enable t1 scout Selen to be used in ghetto gunship. Selen also automatically ceases fire when stealthed. **these changes provided by Ithilis_Quo - many thanks!**

T2:

Seraphim Vulthoo T2 Gunship - changes to a T2.5 unit with 2.5x cost, -1 speed, 2.2x HP & DPS increase. Model scale adjusted.

T3:

Land:
T3 Usha-Ah Sniper - can now hover on water. Increased unit hover height and model size adjusted to reduce terrain impact on shooting (note terrain still a factor! now is slightly more forgivable). Has a slower hover speed on water - 15% penalty

T3 Athanah shield generator - +40hp/sec regen and -10sec down time when shield destroyed

T3 Othuum siege tank - main cannon firing arc changed to low arc with increased range, reduced accuracy, slower fire rate, small AoE, adjusted unit height to lower effect of terrain on the bolter fire (changes have little net effect on fights vs other t3 tanks, improves othuum vs bases - certainly makes the unit a lot more characterful to use)

Air:
T3 Iaselen spy plane - proportional 20% hp, turn rate and cost hike. Also gains the t1 sera scout death ability for 20secs vision **Bug fix to death ability provided by Ithilis_Quo - many thanks!**



My current thoughts on v3:

Improvement on stock:
- The mod definitely makes seraphim more interesting to play. T3 seems to have a lot more cohesion and a strong theme of solid frontal army assault with a co-ordinated attack that wasn't as developed as before

Balance issues:
- Gunship numbers will need to be refined with testing. It's a fairly big change & will need to be fine tuned
- Othuum are not significantly improved against other t3 units in sandbox testing with and without micro. They ARE better vs massed cheap t1/2 units and clumped bases.
- The shield generator has had a modest buff. The issue is that there's probably a fine line as to how much buffing this unit can have before additive effects make it extremely powerful - will need close monitoring
- Snipers are just plain better than before. They still hit the dirt but they're not as bad and their water harass ability is really useful on any map with water. Seraphim now has a really impressive array of hover units that synergise well with transport drops.
- The selen is now ghetto gunship capable...but gets TRASHED by a single flak. I don't think it's going to be an issue.

Feel free to post your thoughts at try it out

[Korbah]

***Reserved***

[Ithilis_Quo]

Land:
***Planned v3 change: - Enable t1 scout Selen to be used in ghetto gunship**** (not implemented yet)

you also need change turet turn rate on selen, or idealy increase dps also. Othrwise it would not work great.
(its done in EQ)

Air:
Seraphim Vulthoo T2 Gunship - changes to a T2.5 unit with 2.5x cost, -1 speed, 2.2x HP & DPS increase. 1 aoe dmg radius. Model scale adjusted.

T,25gunship didnt work. Its too expensive = come later and cant make work of t2 gunship, and on t3 its too weak. I suggest you make T2,25 gunship also with aoe more hp and dmg. but twice dmg is too much, because also hp buff make it much better.
already in EQ: 1200hp 80dps 0,5aoe +2range same speed

T3 Othuum siege tank - main cannon firing arc changed to low arc with increased range, reduced accuracy, slower fire rate, small AoE (changes have little net effect on fights vs other t3 tanks, improves othuum vs bases - certainly makes the unit a lot more characterful to use)

not sure if it would not be ussles against units. And aoe is also very risky, nomads t3 tank was with aoe and long range and it was very problematic (and op in big number) be careful with it.

T3 Iaselen spy plane - proportional 20% hp, turn rate and cost hike. Also gains the t1 sera scout death ability for 20secs vision (compensates for no advanced vision abilities/units)

i was also reduce hp by 20% but add selen ability when not move, on t3 enemy have omny and spy planes with omny so its counterable, and add special intel tool for sera that are missing. But your sugg is also nice.

[yeager]

Land:
***Planned v3 change: - Enable t1 scout Selen to be used in ghetto gunship**** (not implemented yet)

you also need change turet turn rate on selen, or idealy increase dps also. Othrwise it would not work great.
(its done in EQ)

Air:
Seraphim Vulthoo T2 Gunship - changes to a T2.5 unit with 2.5x cost, -1 speed, 2.2x HP & DPS increase. 1 aoe dmg radius. Model scale adjusted.

T,25gunship didnt work. Its too expensive = come later and cant make work of t2 gunship, and on t3 its too weak. I suggest you make T2,25 gunship also with aoe more hp and dmg. but twice dmg is too much, because also hp buff make it much better.
already in EQ: 1200hp 80dps 0,5aoe +2range same speed

T3 Othuum siege tank - main cannon firing arc changed to low arc with increased range, reduced accuracy, slower fire rate, small AoE (changes have little net effect on fights vs other t3 tanks, improves othuum vs bases - certainly makes the unit a lot more characterful to use)

not sure if it would not be ussles against units. And aoe is also very risky, nomads t3 tank was with aoe and long range and it was very problematic (and op in big number) be careful with it.

T3 Iaselen spy plane - proportional 20% hp, turn rate and cost hike. Also gains the t1 sera scout death ability for 20secs vision (compensates for no advanced vision abilities/units)

i was also reduce hp by 20% but add selen ability when not move, on t3 enemy have omny and spy planes with omny so its counterable, and add special intel tool for sera that are missing. But your sugg is also nice.

I've played with the gunship, it is NOT useless, at least in the 800-1600 it is borderline OP, if you can rush it hard enough you can shift the entire game, and then spam them until t3 air shows up.
If there is a dedicated air player their use is more restricted, but they are still a force to be reckoned with
Also to korbah: does the t1 scout ability work on the t3 scout now? I thought it wasn't finished yet

[Korbah]

Land:
***Planned v3 change: - Enable t1 scout Selen to be used in ghetto gunship**** (not implemented yet)

you also need change turet turn rate on selen, or idealy increase dps also. Othrwise it would not work great.
(its done in EQ)

Thx - still working on this

Air:
Seraphim Vulthoo T2 Gunship - changes to a T2.5 unit with 2.5x cost, -1 speed, 2.2x HP & DPS increase. 1 aoe dmg radius. Model scale adjusted.

T,25gunship didnt work. Its too expensive = come later and cant make work of t2 gunship, and on t3 its too weak. I suggest you make T2,25 gunship also with aoe more hp and dmg. but twice dmg is too much, because also hp buff make it much better.
already in EQ: 1200hp 80dps 0,5aoe +2range same speed

You're correct that doubling HP + DPS makes the unit particularly good - I've already made adjustments for this. Whether I've adjusted it enough remains to be seen.

The gun does have a small AoE now.

T3 Othuum siege tank - main cannon firing arc changed to low arc with increased range, reduced accuracy, slower fire rate, small AoE (changes have little net effect on fights vs other t3 tanks, improves othuum vs bases - certainly makes the unit a lot more characterful to use)

not sure if it would not be ussles against units. And aoe is also very risky, nomads t3 tank was with aoe and long range and it was very problematic (and op in big number) be careful with it.

I've done a fair bit of work with it. The AoE is small with a 1.5 radius, 35 range - with a reload rate nerf & new 1.15 firing randomness to compensate for the AoE and range buff. The visuals also match the new cannon behaviour. Honestly you need to just try the unit out - it makes a lot of sense in game.

I've played with the gunship, it is NOT useless, at least in the 800-1600 it is borderline OP, if you can rush it hard enough you can shift the entire game, and then spam them until t3 air shows up.
If there is a dedicated air player their use is more restricted, but they are still a force to be reckoned with
Also to korbah: does the t1 scout ability work on the t3 scout now? I thought it wasn't finished yet

You are correct - the scout ability is still not working but I plan to get it fixed (or ask for help).

The gunships are different enough that seraphim have a unique feel to T2 air - it'll just be a matter of getting their numbers fine tuned with play testing

[Ithilis_Quo]

If you want i can send you code for t3scout ability.

About Sera gunship. You can Save this time I do it for you in past. With multiple test and about 10real game where i was forced to change 2.5 to 2.25. When it cost 50%more then Sera dont have t2gunship, stronger gunship is agaist max same as weaker, but weaker will be much faster build. Agaist Army its better because can fight with flak, but will die agaist air same as t2, and while Sera build 1gunship other build 1gunship and 2inties.

[yeager]

idk, on sedongs cluch i build a t2 hq, 2 t2 power plants and a t2 support factory, sup fac does inties, main one does gunsips, both have engies assist, and i just do that until im ready to push navy or go t3. it absolutely stomps most people cause they arent prepared and if my enemy went t2 navy i still do ok. just send 2 inties over the crusier and then send in 6-8 gunships and you kill it super quick, then pick off destroyers.

[briang]

it absolutely stomps most people cause they arent prepared and if my enemy went t2 navy i still do ok

You mean it stomps people at <1k level who don't scout or know what to do even if they did? What exactly does this prove?

As for the overall idea of a T2.5 gunship for Seraphim I don't think it really has a place. Honestly they would be better off just getting a T3 gunship, there isn't a reason for them not to have one (I know you are trying to avoid this).

I don't much agree with T2.5 units as a whole, and I don't really think the Ilshavoh is one. At least it isn't anymore.

The T3 scout idea is fine and honestly has been a long time coming.

Amphibious Sniper Bots? This doesn't fix them. They need to be more useful on land, they and the shields are the key to Seraphim's success against other factions.

You also should not touch navy period unless you are going to try and re-balance it as a whole; I am also unsure you have any sort of meaningful experience playing with navy. (I know you said you wouldn't touch it yet)

As usual I would like to advocate playing and improving to a 1500 level. When I look at these posts, I see someone who wants to do something and has the means but does not necessarily have the experience or somebody with him who does have it. If you wanted to do something with navy I'd be happy to help.

[Korbah]

As for the overall idea of a T2.5 gunship for Seraphim I don't think it really has a place. Honestly they would be better off just getting a T3 gunship, there isn't a reason for them not to have one (I know you are trying to avoid this).

It's a difficult situation - this is the only way of trying to address the problem without adding a new unit. It's worth trying - if it fails it can be discarded

The T3 scout idea is fine and honestly has been a long time coming.

Thx - it seemed the most obvious choice to improve t3 intel without adding units

Amphibious Sniper Bots? This doesn't fix them. They need to be more useful on land, they and the shields are the key to Seraphim's success against other factions.

They also hover higher which improves their land ability somewhat. The hover does make them a lot more flexible and useful for harass. I agree that shields are key.

You also should not touch navy period unless you are going to try and re-balance it as a whole; I am also unsure you have any sort of meaningful experience playing with navy. (I know you said you wouldn't touch it yet)

This is exactly why I am not touching them - there's no point because navy needs it's own overhaul.

As usual I would like to advocate playing and improving to a 1500 level. When I look at these posts, I see someone who wants to do something and has the means but does not necessarily have the experience or somebody with him who does have it. If you wanted to do something with navy I'd be happy to help.

My play is sporadic due to my work - getting consistent games is hard for me. I can easily think about balance ideas through the day and watch replays much easier than getting bulk games. More experience is useful but not mandatory and possibly not achievable for me.

I will take you up on your offer however thx

[briang]

If you simply don't have the time to play than your time could be better spent for FAF. I'd think about joining the development team.