Aeon Navy

[IceDreamer]

It's better VS T2 Navy because the splash will frequently take out multiple ships, doubling or triple the effective DPS. It's also much, much tougher to dodge. I'd rather throw a Tempest behind an established Destroyer fleet than 2.5 battleships, because it can launch shells from well out of range, and if one just *happens* to land right, which happens a fair amount in my experience, you just killed 3 enemy Destroyers in one shot. It also OHKOs Bulwark shields.

It works well paired with Torrent because Torrent is actually fairly poor at willy-nilly destruction of all the things. It's fabulous for taking out individual things (Shields, SMD, SML) but Tempest is much, much better at, once the shields are down, wrecking everything underneath. Buildpower, for instance. Or the power grid.

Having the factory built in is never a disadvantage. The 'downside' you mentioned only applies to idiots. Of course you're not going to sit it still and build when there are things around which can engage it! However, while there are NOT such things, you have the option to do so. That's only ever a good thing.

I'm not disregarding anything. I'm presenting logical arguments that this unit is not as bad as people think. Again I direct you to the Sparky, which is only now starting to see the play it should be given its stats.

If we WERE to change the Tempest to be a more general-purpose, often-seen unit, I'd buff the splash radius by a point or two, and the HP by a bit. Say 75K HP. Wouldn't want to push it too far. All while nerfing the buildtime of course, alongside the rest of the exps (Hopefully).

[Ithilis_Quo]

Sory Icy but you dont know what are you talking about. Tempest hit per one shot 1 destroyer, 5 aoe mean that next ship need to be 2,5 or less aoe near next ship, and standard formation is bigger as 2,5. It hit multiple ship only when you are lucky what is not in most of cause.

Most of advantage what you point exist but are so small that none care. Submerge tempest? Build navy with tempest factory? Its waste of oportunity to build it... build tempest for be factory is waste 1530dps and 144 000hp that can be in battleship and devatet enemy, not in factory. Seriously host sanbox game and test it. i do it, and do it multiple and multiple time. My real game focus on temepest is not only build tempest, its real game when one player is focus on build and use tempest. Only tempest was that 50+ testing games.

I have tempest with 125K hp, what is nearly 2x more as is what you say that would be so op. and tempest is still not op, but have some reason to be build. Actual tempest is jast fast builded crap.

Yes its builded fast, yes you dont need T3 factory, (because its exp) but thats all. Its uncomporable weaker with every other batleship. So when you dont have T3 navy and have a lot of mass yes, go for it, you have chance to compte, but when you have T3 navy then is no real reson go for tempest. Jast no.

[IceDreamer]

Well, perhaps I'm wrong, but I simply cannot see 120,000 HP + being balanced, at least not in the present game as a straight buff. Remember, in your mod there are a lot of other changes which shift everything around. I also don't see it as useless. Yes, you could build those Battleships, but I can think of at least a few places I'd want the Tempest, especially if I have Air control. The Summit class just got a fairly hefty nerf because 150 range make it insanely powerful. You can't kill what you can't engage! Yet here we are arguing that the same range is not any use here... Something's not right. I have seen Tempest tear enormous, gaping holes in enemy navies like a knife through butter without getting so much as a scratch on it, navies which would have been firing back on Omens with their pitiful range.

I think this is what it really comes down to. It's nothing to do with replacing Battleships, it's a lot simpler than that: If you are in a position where you can guarantee you can keep it alive and firing, build a few Battleships, then round it off with a Tempest. The trouble is that with low HP, slow movement, ground fire vulnerability etc, that's far easier said than done.

It's the Fatboy of the Sea You have to screen in front of it, you have to keep it alive. It's a support bombardment ship, not a front-line fighter.

All this being said... Personally, what I'd like to see is a much, much tougher and more powerful Tempest. Just look at it! It's huge, it's fat, and it has a big freaking gun!

I'd like to see what happens if we increase the cost to Czar-ish levels (40K or so), and then buffed it massively to a point where it's worth that cost. Turn it into a floating bombardment fortress; Great range, massive splash, beefy-as-hell HP, a Factory (For spewing Cruisers when they try and hit you with Torp Bombers), and hugely powerful Torpedoes.

[Ithilis_Quo]

i nearly dont touch navy. So my tempest is layed on same units, and yes 125 000hp 660+300dps tempest is well balanced with curent navy. Its maybe hard to imagine, because its more as 2x more hp, but it is.. When price would be nearly doubled, for have same buff it would be even more crapy units. Maybe it can cost more, and add additional buff, for be a monster. But problem is map design that is already palyed, big map are mostly unplayed, and big price mean that its supost to be on big map only. Where it can terrified enemy, but also nearly never occur in game because it would be inine risk and in most of cause would this mass mising on another naval production while its build

[TheKoopa]

IceDreamer wrote:

...

Yes, exactly, though the massive alpha it has doesn't rape T2 navy but it rapes T3 navy easy. IMO that's what it's for, to kill T3 navy. The Aeon battleship is not a bs, but rather a battle cruiser with a higher (?) cost, but they beat battle cruisers very easily and are better than bc at killing T2 navy.

Battlecruisers are not meant to be used against T3 navy, they're meant to be used to support the main guns against smaller cannon fodder.

Because of this, I wouldn't call the Aeon BS a battleship, but would rather reclass it as a battlecruiser. Battleships have bug guns to go long ranges, but the Aeon is lacking that range.

I think the main reason why everyone thinks the Aeon navy sucks is because no one mixes the battleship with tempests. People are not realising that the combo is borderline OP.

[yeager]

Well, it has aloy more issues than other navies, crapy t1, awful early t2, no special t2 unit, poor navy exp
On the other hand you get a missile ship, t3 torpedo bomber, and strong hover. I think it's fine personally

[TheKoopa]

Tbh I think the Aeon frigates are fine, slightly longer range let's you harass other frigates when they are idle and being able to fire while moving backwards is a major ability

[yeager]

Meh
Depends on the map to be honest

[Tremarl]

The problem is that hover was nerfed and t3 torps are too expensive for what they do. Aircraft carriers will murder them and cruisers don't have issues unless its sera shit cruiser.
Torp bombers are more for killing submarines if anything.

The biggest issue I find is that the hover made up for the awful t2 destroyers because the hover could eventually get close to enemy navy and then stop them dodging by enclosing them. However since the speed nerf they are unable to properly perform this function, previously it was already difficult to do.

Tempest isn't a battlecruiser and it is ineffective at killing t2. Its fire rate is to low it can't hit moving targets at the maximum of its range, it's aoe is only effective if the enemy is retarded enough to group ships or in chokes and it dies against other t3's without much counterplay. If anything tempest is a mobile artillery in the sea that for some reason has the same range as a Summit and lower range than missile weaponary. Surely a mobile artillery should have higher range than other bships?

[yeager]

He was talking about t3 bs
i do think hover was a good nerf, but maybe a little too harsh.