Aircraft afterburners

[angus000]

I like the idea, it opens up doors for new tactics, however simple they may be.

Also it's not an escape button. As briang pointed out, the new afterburn speed would be the actual max speed so you can't just escape AA, and your enemy can use his own afterburn to chase you down.

It has the potential to give lower tech units a chance to do something before they die. But it can also make transports too OP.

[Zeldafanboy]

This could be a great idea if implemented correctly... But I think it should be restricted to Interceptors, Fighter Bombers/Swift Winds, and ASF

Strats and transports would be OP

[Hawkei]

The way I understand this is that the afterburner capability increases speed. But considering the short and intense nature of air battles, wouldn't players want to trade their flight time for avionic capabilities? IMO, the meta-game would inevitably lead to players always activating afterburners in any fight. Lest they loose their edge. It would become the norm, and not a means for escape.

I believe that there are other trade-offs which must also be applied for afterburner to work as intended. When afterburners are activated an overheat bar should display. Which goes up when activated, and comes back down when in normal flight. Such that the player can only burn for 10 seconds, and requires 20 seconds of normal flight to recover. Even more importantly, there should be a reduction in turn rate and weapon firing angles when in afterburner. These changes should be made in addition to the increased fuel burn rate proposed.

I believe that those changes would allow normal thrust fighters to maintain their tactical advantages. Where aircraft on afterburner are suited only to fast strafing runs, and normal thrust is still used for dogfighting. It might also create some interesting air micro outcomes, where players switch between the two states for positional advantage in a dogfight. This is well worth looking into IMO.

[KD7BCH]

Personally i'm of the opinion that more tedious micro = worse game to play, and also = more annoying shit to do that isn't really fun.

I don't see the fun in these weird, special abilities. It would just annoy me instead.

Agree on the micro.

Additionally the issue with FBs is not speed.

The issue with all air isn't speed, they move much faster than land.

The issue with T2FBs is they cost more mass than the ASF which flys faster, have far superior A<>A capabilities, and shoot down FBs in 3-4 shots, also known as "before they destroy the target", ASFs are also far superior dog fighters with much greater agility.

T2 FBs are really only effective before ASFs come onto the scene. Making them faster will get them on target quicker and increase their first pass lethality however that would only matter if they were faster than ASFs without the ASF afterburner. Even with afterburners they are slower than the ASF at normal speed, meaning even out of position ASFs with their superior speed and agility will make an intercept and likely destroy the FBs before their attack. Certainly before a 2nd pass.

So what happens, A,B or C.
A. You get a destroyed target maybe, and give lots of mass to your enemy, they keep their ASFs and you lose air superiority.
B. You fail to destroy the target, lose all your FBs, and the enemy ASFs are still flying and you lose air superiority.
C. You get a full first pass on a target and destroy it, while still taking losses, if and only if it is an enemy ACU you win the engagement, if it is not you will still lose your whole force to ASFs. Simple as that. If your target is shielded you are even less likely to kill it. You might get a 2nd pass with a T2 FB if you have a lot of FBs and the enemy has very few ASFs but this is almost never going to be the case because the FBs cost more mass than the ASFs so there is a very narrow time in gameplay where this is likely to be the case. In an average game probably less than 2 minutes.

The ASFs also have a 15 min fuel level which essentially means once you build them they are instantly on CAP Combat Air Patrol until they get shot down by another ASF.

Upwards of 80% of the time an ASF dies by another ASF and the remaining 20% of the time it is by all other combined factors. Given this T2 FBs are a huge mass waste unless nobody else is T3 air. The time and cost it takes to get 15 FBs vs the time it takes for an air enemy to get T3 and build 10 ASFs is roughly the same while the ASF player has a huge advantage because they have wiped out your T2 FB force, can either maintain air superiority or switch to T3 bombers and hit you with a better bomber.

So T2 air vs T3 air is never ever ever a competition with the current air build.

Now all that said, if we want to make afterburners a real thing, double the speed you can do with them instead of flying at 15, fly at 30. Reduce the agility during the afterburn, and make the afterburn last about 5 seconds, while eating fuel like crazy. Make it cost energy so if you move 100 ASFs it kills your eco for the 5 seconds you do it. If your plan is to hyperjet into an attack with FBs you need to be able to beat normal ASF speed to get that "surprise". On the other side of the coin, if your enemy uses their afterburners in an ASF with a 5 second countdown they are likely to overshoot so they'd have to strategically place their forces, or at least choose to use the tactic or let you get your first pass in.

There are plenty of inventive ways to implement this but taking a speed increase of +2 or +3 which amounts to about a 15% increase isn't going to bring enough tactical merit to offset the need to click another damn button to make something happen. An afterburner on a T2FB that is like using 93 octane gas instead of 87 is also not what an Afterburner is all about.

[Zeldafanboy]

I believe that those changes would allow normal thrust fighters to maintain their tactical advantages. Where aircraft on afterburner are suited only to fast strafing runs, and normal thrust is still used for dogfighting. It might also create some interesting air micro outcomes, where players switch between the two states for positional advantage in a dogfight. This is well worth looking into IMO.

This is a great idea. Normal flight= tactical advantage. Afterburners= strategic advantage.

[RoLa]

I made a mod AirMaintainanceMod where refueling costs a reasonable amount of mass and energy. Together with the idea of training up to vet1 on landing pads and up to vet3 on aircraft carriers and adjusting all build cost for air units and sorting selected air units by vet level it would be much more strategic. You must and can play much more agressivly with your air units. Just keep your high vetted air units safe and throw the rest at the enemy is much better than keeping a large air force sitting and waiting on the field. The carriers would become much more important because docked planes dont consume fuel so no resources are wasted for maintainance.

The Afterburner is a nice idea but it's just another tactic / micro tool which add depth to air play but has really nothing to do with strategy.

[Evildrew]

Some of you guys are missing the point about my point that you have a chance to escape. It means if you click the afterburner button while you are facing in the opposite direction you can get a head start, however the opponent can turn and also use afterburners to chase and the number of ASF that get shot down may be less but it also means that if you decide to bail and the opponent doesnt notice your afterburners light up he might be to slow too react and not be able to chase you down.

I see a lot of what I think must be some UI mod to target every single ASF instantly by some players in replays and if this is the case and you have that on, without afterburners as dominating air player you can leave your ASF to finish his troops off and no matter whether he fights or tries to flee, the weaker air player will be crushed.

If this is not some UI mod but something ingame I just dont know about please enlighten me

[zeroAPM]

KD I think 5+ people have explained to you that FB are more expensive mass wise than ASF because they can fire at ground targets, mass is irrelevant anyways. ASF cost nearly 5x the power. It utterly confounds me that you even look at the mass cost. Do you know how many Team Games end with T2 Corsair snipes from X air player while Y air player is trying to rush T3?

I also am confused that you even have an opinion regarding anything to do with air. Your last Rohan game at air slot you managed 4 ASF at minute 20...

Your "what happens" is actually spot on, because that is what's supposed to happen! T2 units designed for attacking ground targets aren't supposed to be able to stand up to a T3 unit specially designed to kill them. What T2 and T3 land/navy units stand up to their T3 counterparts? None.

And before you ask: Mercies are another story

[yeager]

T2 vs t3 subs...


You guys are pretty much right here, and I'm not trying to argue against you, but just sayin

[KD7BCH]

KD I think 5+ people have explained to you that FB are more expensive mass wise than ASF because they can fire at ground targets, mass is irrelevant anyways. ASF cost nearly 5x the power. It utterly confounds me that you even look at the mass cost. Do you know how many Team Games end with T2 Corsair snipes from X air player while Y air player is trying to rush T3?

I also am confused that you even have an opinion regarding anything to do with air. Your last Rohan game at air slot you managed 4 ASF at minute 20...

Your "what happens" is actually spot on, because that is what's supposed to happen! T2 units designed for attacking ground targets aren't supposed to be able to stand up to a T3 unit specially designed to kill them. What T2 and T3 land/navy units stand up to their T3 counterparts? None.

And before you ask: Mercies are another story

Neither mass or power are irrelevant. If you go T3 you have a faster more durable superior bomber which is essentially impervious to T2 and T1 except en mass concentration and the option to use ASFs, If you stay in T2 and use FBs they are quickly shot down by the ASF if your opponent goes T3. They are talking about adding a buff to the FB. So I looked at the proposed change with the current air build and it doesn't work around the fundamental dilemma of T2FB vs ASF vs using T3 strats instead.

Fighter Bombers wont kill ASFs effectively, they wont run from ASFs effectively either. ASFs also are much more agile. The power cost is higher but so what, you had to build T2 Pgens to get RAS anyway and then you RAS, once you RAS you have T3 air no sweat. Unless you can't do that because you suck.

Yeah they do cost more power, in 1v1 this is a thing, I agree, however in teamgames it isn't because of RAS, everybody does RAS and ARAS ASAP and power is plentiful in most situations.

If you are talking about a recent game where I am UEF, oh well. I am brand new to UEF, and focusing on learning the satellite. I am also working on making the templates for it. Also I don't play my best fucking game every time unlike you godly posters.

Mass is only irrelevant in your eyes if you want to dumb a good 10k of it off to your enemy for minimal probable damage. Or an equal trade, maybe you kill the target and maybe you dont, but if you do you still give them enough mass to rebuild it if they have ASFS. Moral of the story build ASFs and that is what most players do in team games. Initial ASFs are expected by 15 min in and by 20 min as you say, swarming.

If you need some replays showing dozens of T2 FBs at 20-25 mins being wiped out by a handful of ASFs I'll be happy to show you that too because it is no contest.