Quick Idea

[Exotic_Retard]

lets not forget that their sacu are either not great or need constant attention and cost 10k mass, so their lategame suffers from that also



and no sacu ras which everyone is loving recently

[Exotic_Retard]

Once again, not the point I'm making and a useless comment.

good morning to you too.


i was under the impression that unit stats are the same for 1v1 and teamgames, hence, it would make sense to balance units regarding both of those situations?
don't see how the "context of 1v1" is even relevant here

as far as i can tell, othuums are a t3 unit and can, in fact, affect lategame balance. i was saying that lategame balance is an issue for sera atm

would also make sense that if you make a suggestion of changing balance you look at a bigger picture than the performance of othuums vs percies mass for mass, or similar.

Spoiler: show

does the term "sacu" insult you greatly? just wondering...

have a nice day ; )

[Gorton]

Yes, they don't work well vs percy.

Nothing works well vs percy.

Because the Percy is OP and needs a speed nerf. UEF got titans for speed which would need a buff.

Percy is very strong, yes. That's not questioned, they are the strongest land unit in the game and they are supposed to kill everything.
I'm not saying they don't need a nerf, however. Or just a flat t3 nerf.

You also get :
A better t1 arty for killing everything but stationary units, where they are basically the same.

Zthuees are a little better because they have 50% more mass cost and 50% more dps plus better radius. But they have less HP so they are also more squishy.

And they are far superior and I'd take them over lobos 99% of the time.

Shields at T3.

Which provide less HP per mass then other faction's mobile shields (about 40% less) and are therefore considered worse by many players. They could use a 20% cost reduction.

They still exist and can cover sniperbots very effectively. Use them vs t3.

Better T2 units.

The Illshavoh just got a nerf and is easier to swarm with T1. It might need another nerf imho because it still seems OP (like the Percival) but we also need a T3 buff then!

Still very strong, better than t2 uef/cyb and can murder t1. Use commander to help.

You've got your advantages at early game -> middle. UEF get it in late, which is the least played, since most 1v1 games are decided in t1 t2.

That doesn't work, because at t2 there is a strategic choice that can still win you the game: go t3. But once t3 is in place, the Seraphim t4 is a very poor siege unit (like the spider). We would either need a t4 in the power rage of megalith or GC, or get better t3.

Why does this not work? A uef player is gambling they can hold in a worse situation for the majority of the game in the majority of the games played, and they get rewarded for doing so. I don't see a problem with that.
You're gambling on your strong early phase.

Changes to further fix the situation may occur, and i'm sure the balance team is aware of it. However I very much doubt it's happening with a flat sera buff. It's not needed.

[Zoram]

The point of this thread isn't late game balance. The point of the thread is Othuums and their balance in comparison to other T3 land units.

What's the point of comparing unit to unit without taking the context of teh overall balance of the faction into account ? If we do so the only logical conclusion would be that all faction should just be the same.

(I'll save you going to the replay vault to look at my games, I'm a non important lesser rating player).

[yeager]

Well the ilshavoh is kinda on topic, it is the reason we now need to buff the othuum. And when was it decided we are only regarding 1v1s? The problem is biggest in team games, so shouldn't that get attention too? As for scu ras a useless disadvantage is just that, the only reason NOT to have it is because the issue doesn't occur too often, but that doesn't really warrant not fixing it

[yeager]

Yes, they don't work well vs percy.

Nothing works well vs percy.

Because the Percy is OP and needs a speed nerf. UEF got titans for speed which would need a buff.

Percy is very strong, yes. That's not questioned, they are the strongest land unit in the game and they are supposed to kill everything.
I'm not saying they don't need a nerf, however. Or just a flat t3 nerf.

You also get :
A better t1 arty for killing everything but stationary units, where they are basically the same.

Zthuees are a little better because they have 50% more mass cost and 50% more dps plus better radius. But they have less HP so they are also more squishy.

And they are far superior and I'd take them over lobos 99% of the time.

Shields at T3.

Which provide less HP per mass then other faction's mobile shields (about 40% less) and are therefore considered worse by many players. They could use a 20% cost reduction.

They still exist and can cover sniperbots very effectively. Use them vs t3.

Better T2 units.

The Illshavoh just got a nerf and is easier to swarm with T1. It might need another nerf imho because it still seems OP (like the Percival) but we also need a T3 buff then!

Still very strong, better than t2 uef/cyb and can murder t1. Use commander to help.

You've got your advantages at early game -> middle. UEF get it in late, which is the least played, since most 1v1 games are decided in t1 t2.

That doesn't work, because at t2 there is a strategic choice that can still win you the game: go t3. But once t3 is in place, the Seraphim t4 is a very poor siege unit (like the spider). We would either need a t4 in the power rage of megalith or GC, or get better t3.

Why does this not work? A uef player is gambling they can hold in a worse situation for the majority of the game in the majority of the games played, and they get rewarded for doing so. I don't see a problem with that.
You're gambling on your strong early phase.

Changes to further fix the situation may occur, and i'm sure the balance team is aware of it. However I very much doubt it's happening with a flat sera buff. It's not needed.

i actually agree with all this, although a strong late game does mean that the factions can't one-up you, and that's kinda the jist of the game? One upping your opponent? You should at least be able to do enough damage to turn it into an even fight, and right now that's hard to do.

[Gorton]

My opinion, briang : Make all t3 land less powerful in general. Global nerf.

[Korbah]

Strongly against blanket changes like that gorton. It lacks finesse and fails to account for the some of the underlying causes of the strength of t3 land.

It's a solution. It may work, but it'll create new problems that a better considered and individually adjusted approach may avoid.

[Gorton]

When the problem is that t3 land is significantly stronger than t2 (much more significant than t2 -> t1 ) ....

[Korbah]

Except that it's not that simple.

T3 land is clearly superior to T2 - by design.

Design is an issue here as some units are clearly better designed, others better implemented and some poorly implemented and designed.

The problem is complex and stems from a variety of factors - T3 is likely overly accessible. Whilst superior, t3 options are asynchronous in their effectiveness between units and races making global nerfs/buffs. Certainly the interplay between t3 navy and certainly air also compound the problem.

I'm not disagreeing that there's a problem with t3 land - I'm contesting over the solution.