Zoram wrote:Korbah, you really don't need to be that verbose to just end up being captain obvious.
I think it's quite apparent to everyone that there are differences of scales and timing between 1v1 and team games.
Both Keyser and zlo_rd highlighted this in their posts and put forward some great examples of some of the key factors that differ between 1v1 and team gameplay. What they didn't do was highlight the decision making process a balancer would need to follow if they were looking to improve either 1v1 or team games without impacting on the other game type.
Given the original poster's question:
JaggedAppliance wrote:Can we achieve a balance that makes for the best 1v1 games and the best teamgames? How does the balance team consider changes that affect these two areas of faf differently?
It seemed reasonable to me to try and explain how to approach making balance changes from a theoretical point of view (especially given we'd already heard good examples of different gameplay factors). Also given the question was broad - a broad response seemed appropriate.
Whether or not you dislike how I delivered the message is up to you and I make no apology for my prose - I participate in FAF because I enjoy it and will continue to do so in a manner that furthers my enjoyment. What is of relevance, and is being lost in the indignant posts decrying my language, is the key message of my posts - that the differing effect a given change makes on team games as against 1v1 can be predicted and therefore accounted for.
keyser wrote:What is the core gameplay ? Is there difference between core gameplay and some other side gameplay ?
Core gameplay is what you'd expect to see in most games - whether they be 1v1 or teams. Unit interactions such as t3 arty wars are clearly much less common and frequent in 1v1's and are therefore not core gameplay and can be less of a priority when balancing. The gameplay you see 80% of the time should be the focus of balancing - once you get that working well in 1v1 you can broaden to make that core gameplay work well in team games without altering 1v1 significantly. Once all the core gameplay works well in 1v1 AND team games go hunting for the less common balance problems starting first with 1v1 play then team.
It's an arbitrary term and open for negotiation - but it's a useful concept to use when prioritising work on gameplay and balance changes.
Zoram wrote:your skills at diluting a simple idea into abstruse discourse are quite impressive
See I disagree here. JaggedAppliance is no fool and is a good player - he knew full well that there's different scale and timing between the two types of games but still posed the question here in the thread.
If addressing the simple ideas were as easy as you'd suggest FAF would be balanced for 1v1 and team games years ago. Clearly it's not despite the hard work of a legion of intelligent chaps working on this "simple" problem.
Perhaps instead of irrelevant and pointless posts criticising the vocab and style of a few forum posts I've made, people could make a meaningful contribution that answers the OP's question.