Killed the Seraph commander ?

[yeager]

Why is the idea of a middle ground so mind blowing to both of you?

[Mechsangoku]

I was in favor of that...but the "consil" decided to kill the upgrade completely.
I just realised they widen the minimal range for firing too...

So com tml at close range is no longer possible.

So we have:

- reducted hitpoints to 2
- decrease production speed
- increased cost (by 50% lol)
- reduce speed of the tml
- increase minimal range
- decreased AOE

That's a bit much...

And even if it was OP, it never was autowin as some ppl would say.

[Ceneraii]

Hi Mechsantacpack,

This might be a good time to explore other facets of the seraphim commander! You see, when you look at it, the Seraphim commander has a little bit of everything.

-T2 & Gun on Different arms
-2nd highest hp
-Double nano upgrades
-Double ras
-Supergun
-Tacpac

If you look at this list you might think, oh wow, this looks like the most versatile commander of them all! And you'd be right.
So arguing that the sera com is dead just because your favorite tactic got nuked is outright insane.

Now the real point; was tacpac overnerfed? Nope, because it's actually still really good. It still does exactly what it did before except you can't rape commanders in close range anymore.

So basically, your complaint comes down to "waaagh i have to actually fight enemy coms now help plz" and I find this hilarious. Thanks for the laughs.

[yeager]

Hi Mechsantacpack,

This might be a good time to explore other facets of the seraphim commander! You see, when you look at it, the Seraphim commander has a little bit of everything.

-T2 & Gun on Different arms
-2nd highest hp
-Double nano upgrades
-Double ras
-Supergun
-Tacpac

If you look at this list you might think, oh wow, this looks like the most versatile commander of them all! And you'd be right.
So arguing that the sera com is dead just because your favorite tactic got nuked is outright insane.


Now the real point; was tacpac overnerfed? Nope, because it's actually still really good. It still does exactly what it did before except you can't rape commanders in close range anymore.

So basically, your complaint comes down to "waaagh i have to actually fight enemy coms now help plz" and I find this hilarious. Thanks for the laughs.

No, it should of at least Been 3 hp (or same cost) so it could be used as a tend breaker. Honestly I rarely use this now, it was way to powerful originally, but it should still be usefull

[theeggroll]

You used to use it all the time because it was so op, now that it isnt an insta win button you dont use it? whattttt? TML itself is extremely powerful, (My personal preference being that it is OP as f*** and should be removed from the game, but not worth arguing), so having it mobile and building way faster than normal tml is still very strong. I think a slight price reduction would make it a little more worthwhile but overall the mobility of it and the fact that it is tml mean that it is still a strong upgrade. Before the nerf it was used on canis every single game for killing commanders and sniping some eco, a tml rush can still be extremely effective on that map if you use it to snipe everyone's eco, since you can often get twat pac faster then most people end up getting t2 (Yes its possible to have t2 but in terms of eco whoring you dont get t2 THAT fast) it can shit all over your opponents team, whereas with normal tml you'd have to make a fire base and protect the tml.

[Mechsangoku]

Dude, be serious about it:

-T2 & Gun on Different arms
Like all other race excep Cybran ?

-2nd highest hp
Ye true, i wonder how that is possible. It should be lower than the Cybran HP com, with almost no regen....That would be soooo fair.....

-Double nano upgrades
No shield upgrade ?

-Double ras
Ye, like Aeon com

-Supergun
What is that ? The super expensive useless gun upgrade ? Are you kidding me ?

-Tacpac
Don't get me started on this....

Now the real point; was tacpac overnerfed? Nope, because it's actually still really good. It still does exactly what it did before except you can't rape commanders in close range anymore.

If that was the case, a simple increase of minimal range would have suffice don't you think ?

since you can often get twat pac faster then most people end up getting t2 (Yes its possible to have t2 but in terms of eco whoring you dont get t2 THAT fast)

Unless you wanna have much trouble using the upgrade you need a T2 Pg.
Usually you get the tackpack upgrade and eco to power it at 6-7 min if you rush it. Meaning all your eco goes for it.
Now if you can't get 1 Tmd protecting your 4 middle mex on cannis at 6 min, then u're a super noob...

[quark036]

The problem was before the tacpac nerf, 1 tmd wasn't enough to counter it, because 3hp and the firing arc, so you had to get multiple tmds everywhere you wanted eco or anything else you needed to protect, which is much harder than you make it out to be. If it was so easy to defend against it for everyone except "super noobs," why was it made almost every game?

[Mechsangoku]

It's all about position.

3 HP is can be stoped by almost all tmds (except euf)
You just have to place it further from the mex you are protecting.
But true, because of the built speed of the tmls (before patch) you could power thought 1 or even 2 TMD and lauch mutiple ones. But hey that's what the regular TML Cybran does...

And it was made because:

- you could always target units and commanders
- there is ALWAYS someone forgeting tmds
- It is a safe upgrade, as you don't have to rush in with you commander, unlike the nano one

[speed2]

3HP missile kills all except aeon TMDs

[Ceneraii]

Bunch of shizzle

Look I'm being super cereal, if you think tacpac was the only good thing about sera com, you're playing the game wrong. If the best arguments you can come up with to claim the so called weakness of the seraphim com consist of "but one other faction has this too!" or "No shield!" or "Yeah so what?!" and "Don't get me started on this!" then I don't have much more to say tbh.

You simply don't have a one-size-fits-all earlygame move now. And a good tacpack rush was around the 5-5:30 mark if I remember correctly. Now you'll have to mix it up, be creative and find actual weaknesses in your opponents defence to exploit, maybe even, dear god dare I say it...? Maybe... Be agressive and expose yourself to some danger to make gains rather than hang back and chill, do your bo and enjoy being a fucking mapwide threat from the safety of the rivers. Like, you know, every other faction has to do. Cybran has no tacpack... Aeon has no tacpack either, yet these commanders aren't considered useless.

The whole basis for your argument is that the sera com revolved around tacpack, which is absolute bullshit no matter how you look at it. ''But now TMD will stop a missile!" Well, no shit. That's what it's for. Or did you want to say "Now my opponent doesn't have to build TMD on the outer edge of their defences where I can just kill it with the tacpack anyway or consign themselves to building double-TMD at every single mex they have outside of home base(the only realistic solution)" ? Because I don't have to tell you how stupid that sounds... I think at least?

Do you hear Cybran players complaining that their TML doesn't oneshot a TMD anymore? No, because it was just as fucking stupid. But I'm sort of a nice guy, so I'll give a nice tip; Instead of blindly shooting missiles you might want to try dealing with the defences first (you know, like every other faction has to do if they want to damage their opponent). For example, that little fighter bomber you have can oneshot a tmd... Or maybe bring a mobile missiles launcher or two in range as decoy missiles for the TMD... Or use t1 bombers in small groups... By doing this kind of stuff you experience the real fun of supcom; outsmarting your opponent and using all tools at your disposal rather than utterly relying on a single upgrade on a single unit.