Equilibrium

[Retnut]

I'm bad enough at this game when it's familiar that I know better to try my luck with something so radically different, but I don't think it would be productive if I came up with a dozen hypothetical complaints about something I'm not interested in playing.

He's asking is for interested parties to play it, post replays, and comment on gameplay so he can make changes. Ithilis has clearly put MANY hours into this. All these thousands of words of theorycrafting and philosophical debate from so many interested people hardly seem fair when he's the one who's done most of the actual work, no?

Just my 2¢, from the outside looking in...

[Ithilis_Quo]

Was finish work on Path that fix most of issue from feedback, thanks for constructive criticism.

What is changed in this path:

- advance RAS take back with price on 5000m, but energy gain is 25% = 2025e/s on aeon and 2250e/s on sera
- veterancy distribution was changeg, from 2% of destroed every units mass cost to 1%of destroed STRUCTURE 2% of destroed T1/2/3 units, 0,5% for destroyed EXP/COMMANDER
- experimental are build faster LAND 3x faster as same mass in factory, AIR 4x faster as same mass in factory
- T3/4 air remove energy gain from wreack while reclaim
- tmd cost slihtly more, but its build faster.
-- Aeon tmd cost less as others but its build on similar time
- T2,5AA move back on T3
-- cybran T3AA get less firing randomnes (0 but have problem hit small units that still miss sometime) and bigger firing randomnes while moving (0,75)
-- cybran t3aa ground fire 38r 150dps
-- sera t3aa ground fire 180dps on 28r
- cybran t1 mantis have more 25 more hp (315)
- mantis strategic icon change for same as have other T1 tanks (for not mesh up with labs)
- Aeon t1 Aurora, hp 205 (from 255) dps 20 (from 22), this aurora is weaker as is in noral game,
- cybran t1 medusa stun t1 3s on 2aoe T2 2s on 1,5aoe T3 1a on 1aoe -> fron feedback people was fear that it can be too strong and cause perma stun, at first was lower stun on 0,25s, but after testing how it work, fount that 1s it still not strong enought to perma stun units. was try 1 perci against 150 medusa and still dont take perma stun. with 1s stun time. when take hero titam that end with 150kills.
- continetal get more AA dps 100->120, shield rise on hp (+1000) slithli bigger bubble (8,5->11) so can cower gunship with shield better.
- aeon t1 bomberhave 2,5aoe (from 1,5) and 400dmg (from 450)
- atlantis/tempest sonar stealth fixed (now work)
- cybran t3 sub, NUKE outher ring radius 5000dmg on 50aoe, inner ring radius 10 000dmg on 25aoe
--EMP - except T3+T4+COMMAND stun on 50aoe for 40s,
------- except command stun on 50aoe for 30s
- T2 static flak. Add some kind of faction diversity, different price, and behaviour

new version is downloadable in mod vault

[yeager]

I've played this, it's fun (at least at first), but not right, the higher the tier the more cost effective, that's how it should be. Sure mantis should be able to beat Percival because of the fire rate, and illshavoh and obsidian should be cost effect against t3 raid units, but only if just barely (and they aren't as fast so they are much worse for rating and in the long run can't compete with t3 raid) Also, some units are meant to not be as cost effective, for example uef t2 is the most cost effective. Also you fail to note damage output reduction, which means even tho uef t2 is more cost effective, sera wins because half way through the fight one of the uef tanks dies which means the illshavoh isn't taking as much damage for the rest of the fight. Alot of things you put in are useless and would be better In a unit mod not a balance mod. Also why would you reduce view range? It doesn't get noticed much but cybran t2 sub is the most powerful sub except against cooper, so making it even better with the less view rang thing is bad for balance. As for everything else, plz nerf uef SACU, like, a lot, also make sera SACU overcharge upgrade cost more (it would need a super nerf if it had a good fire rate, but fact is it doesn't). I like the omni on scouts (air scouts too? Plz say) but it does not negate the sub stealth, it would e better to put a water omni on aircraft carriers (Neptune or nuke sub for uef) so subs can be countered better, at least late game. Also making cybran battleship have more rang this is dumb unless you buff sera and aeon battle ship too. for air I like some stuff, not others, giving transport a regen factor should be saved for another mod, as for everything else, it's pretty much good

[Ithilis_Quo]

UEF T2 have also riptide that cost 360m and its not that shit (i mean weak) as was, hoover tanks are much better, non hover is still better but when you want to use strategy where you more likeli movment then hover is better.
In supcome in general, that mean also in this mod are more concentrate power all time better as more units that are more cost efficient. Units with more dps and hp in one piece is stronger as same dps and hp in more units, for simply reason that dont die, and dont lose dps when other units die. That its how it work and is suppost to work. On this mod it work manily about this princie, and dont need add extre efficien on higer tech units, (every higer tech units have +5r, what is maybe too strong, but it is still far better)


View range:
i dont change view range on nothing else as NAVY, Purpose of that is make submarine more efficient against navy, and gameplay with submarine that have bigger fun factor as simply make them stronger via units stats. Now you must kite out of navy range, and priorizize units with bigger underwater view.
-For now all submarine have personal sonar stealth not only cybran, but cybran still stay strongest, because have biggest dps, so need less time in attention to destroy important ships.
- how to counter this is make in navy ships that have bigger underwater view (FRIGATE/CRUISER/SUBMARINE/SONAR) or T1 or T3 scout that have omny, take underwater vision on units that have no contact with water is (sadly) technical imposible, so T1 scout have small omny radius, that is 33% of T3 spy plane

UEF SACU:
Of course!
sacu in general are nerfed (less dps[200/250] + weaker upgrade), for 2 reason:
1. T3 is weaker, so sacu must be also weaker
2. actual balance on sacu is terrible.

UEF sacu gun upgrade take 1,75xdmg and 2aoe from 2,5xdmg and 2,5aoe
that mean uef rambo have 350dps from 850dps on smaller area

SERA sacu overchanrge, is cheaper, cost 3000m, but OC take 10 000dmg (from 12000) every 10s insted of (5s) so it is 1000dps with manual attack instead of 2400dps.

CYbran sacu nano get 300hp/s regen
Aeon sacu get sacri as general function, and moved nano on place where was sacri, and loverd nano 300hp/s ->200hp/s

Battleships:
I buff only cybran with more range, (128->140) and sera 128->130 (what its same) and nerf uef where lose 1000hp, and 0,5aoe, what is now for every bs same 2,5

giving transport a regen factor should be saved for another mod,

thanks for note, would be in next patch, i take pasive (5hp/s) regeneration on military units that dont have weapon and cant get veterancy and regen. Take it also on transport that kill something only when is too late to stay alive, is good point for with i forgot.

and thanks for feedback, if you would have something that can be better take me know,
ps: I'm glad you enjoyed it

[Tokyto]

Pretty good, but beetles need a buff.

[SpoCk0nd0pe]

Thank you very much for putting so much work into this, I hope development will continue! A full changelog would indeed be great.

[yeager]

[quote="Ithilis_Quo"]UEF T2 have also riptide that cost 360m and its not that shit (i mean weak) as was, hoover tanks are much better, non hover is still better but when you want to use strategy where you more likeli movment then hover is better.
In supcome in general, that mean also in this mod are more concentrate power all time better as more units that are more cost efficient. Units with more dps and hp in one piece is stronger as same dps and hp in more units, for simply reason that dont die, and dont lose dps when other units die. That its how it work and is suppost to work. On this mod it work manily about this princie, and dont need add extre efficien on higer tech units, (every higer tech units have +5r, what is maybe too strong, but it is still far better)


View range:
i dont change view range on nothing else as NAVY, Purpose of that is make submarine more efficient against navy, and gameplay with submarine that have bigger fun factor as simply make them stronger via units stats. Now you must kite out of navy range, and priorizize units with bigger underwater view.
-For now all submarine have personal sonar stealth not only cybran, but cybran still stay strongest, because have biggest dps, so need less time in attention to destroy important ships.
- how to counter this is make in navy ships that have bigger underwater view (FRIGATE/CRUISER/SUBMARINE/SONAR) or T1 or T3 scout that have omny, take underwater vision on units that have no contact with water is (sadly) technical imposible, so T1 scout have small omny radius, that is 33% of T3 spy plane

UEF SACU:
Of course!
sacu in general are nerfed (less dps[200/250] + weaker upgrade), for 2 reason:
1. T3 is weaker, so sacu must be also weaker
2. actual balance on sacu is terrible.

UEF sacu gun upgrade take 1,75xdmg and 2aoe from 2,5xdmg and 2,5aoe
that mean uef rambo have 350dps from 850dps on smaller area

SERA sacu overchanrge, is cheaper, cost 3000m, but OC take 10 000dmg (from 12000) every 10s insted of (5s) so it is 1000dps with manual attack instead of 2400dps.
CYbran sacu nano get 300hp/s regen
Aeon sacu get sacri as general function, and moved nano on place where was sacri, and loverd nano 300hp/s ->200hp/s

Battleships:
I buff only cybran with more range, (128->140) and sera 128->130 (what its same) and nerf uef where lose 1000hp, and 0,5aoe, what is now for every bs same 2,5 [quote="Ithilis_Quo"]


Increase damage and speed on the battle ships accordingly, so they can't be kited or straight up beeten by other battleships
What I was saying about subs is the cybran stealth sub is currently op, in this mod, all subs have stealth AND boats have decreased view rang, this makes sub OP and, due to torp bomber issues, uncounterable except by other subs, which kinda limits the use of destroyers, battleships, and all other surface vessels. If you ask me I would give sonar omni, that way if you can keep out of rang of sonar (or knock it out) subs can be OP, but with sonar subs are back to normal. another way to fix would be by making them realistic, free stealth and when not moving, but found when they move, this is how it is in real warfare and makes a lot of sense. the last suggestion would be to buff torp bombers, this woul give a realistic counter to subs, while encouraging navy/ air mixing. But the subs to do need a counter, if everyone spams subs the game is less interesting as a whole, taking away fun tax snipes on battleships/ t2 arty attacks/ hover killing battleships and turning the tide of war; the list goes on, I'm not saying you need to cut it out, but give it a counter.
SACUs: see my comment on your SACU thread to see what I think, although generally this is in the right direction
As for the main gameplay: by making all tier useful you've taken away the need it teching, this weakens gameplay just as much if not more than it adds to it, I like that hove is useful but nt OP, and I'm pretty happy with most of the air changes (I would give sera a2.5 gunship, better than the other t2s but can't really compete with t3.
To sum all this up I like what you've done here THIS IS A GOOD GAME MODE but, THIS IS NOT SUPREME COMMANDER I hope this gets into featured mods but at the end of the day this is not supcom, it's far more steril and generally less exciting, because you have taken out so many variables, even though you have added in maby new ones

[Ithilis_Quo]

Dear Yeager, to be honest, how many games you play with Equilibrium mod? When you give me answear i will finish this post... Thx for answear




SpoCk0nd0pe: Already have nearly finish v.4 with fixing bugs that dont found before, and plenty of enchansment. The complete changelog have on "to do list". Hope that would be soon, already provisional version is excel file that can be found in mod.

[yeager]

Dear Yeager, to be honest, how many games you play with Equilibrium mod? When you give me answear i will finish this post... Thx for answear




SpoCk0nd0pe: Already have nearly finish v.4 with fixing bugs that dont found before, and plenty of enchansment. The complete changelog have on "to do list". Hope that would be soon, already provisional version is excel file that can be found in mod.

1, my computer has a virus so I just have watched replays of it

[Aurion]

I really don't mean to be rude, but your english with these long posts make it really hard to read about everything your mod is doing. A concise change log (with semi proper English) would be very welcome actually, isn't there someone who can help you with that?