Patch 3704 Release Thread

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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby JaggedAppliance » 07 Sep 2019, 19:24

I want to clarify that the only person who is actually in the balance team that has commented in the last few pages is keyser, no one else. Anyone else speaking for the balance team has no basis to do so.
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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby Azraeel » 07 Sep 2019, 20:37

JaggedAppliance wrote:I want to clarify that the only person who is actually in the balance team that has commented in the last few pages is keyser, no one else. Anyone else speaking for the balance team has no basis to do so.



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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby FtXCommando » 07 Sep 2019, 20:48

Thomy100 wrote:
FtXCommando wrote: You know one of the dudes that got to the finals in the end of the year tournament last year basically purely plays phim in 1v1, right? And that’s where phim is supposed to BE weaker and happened on a patch where they WERE weaker. How does that fit into the facts and logic? (Or Nano ACU, or double gun, or gunship, or making chicken able to stomp large t3 armies due to the fact it can now properly kite while using most of its dps, ....)


Do you know where I can watch these replays? is it in the vault or somewhere? Would really love to watch tem :)

About the t3 sub: Yes, I agree, it's shouldn't become a "Monster" again as it used to be... I will think about it and maybe test out some stuff in sandbox mode to suggest a moderate buff.


Nah, really should start keeping track of tournament games for the sake of rewatching them though.
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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby Steel_Panther » 07 Sep 2019, 21:35

keyser wrote:I'm not an expert in late game requiring game ender. But i can tell you that e cost isn't that important. At this point in the game you have set up power grid to handle the asf spam (no need to build pgen to build your game ender), and as said before you will be most likely stalling on mass rather than energy.


I agree, except for the Yolona. We could quibble about how much is a substantial enough power grid, but it is significantly more energy intensive than other game enders. You'll need 20k+ excess power, not counting all your other energy usage like shields and mexes, to build it in under 8 minutes, assuming you are putting 400 mass per second into it. If you want to build it faster, say with a good amount of stored mass, it will take more power. It costs a total of 10 million energy, so to build in 5 minutes, that means 2 million energy per minute, or 33,333 per second. Yes, a substantial air grid can handle this, but air would very likely have to be paused if you want to try to build it relatively quickly. That might be worth it, but in some situations (e.g. was air lost?) you might want to keep building a few more asfs to help protect the game ender vs strat snipes, so that makes it a bit of an issue compared to the other game enders.

To compare:
Yolo 10M energy, (187.7k mass) 53 e/mass
Mavor 6M (224.8k mass) 26.7 e/mass
Scathis 4.0M (220k mass) 18.2 e/mass
Paragon 7.5M (250.2k mass) 30 e/mass
Salvation 5.4M (202.5k mass) 26.7 e/mass

Especially since the mavor, scathis and paragon are significantly more mass expensive, that means the yolo is relatively even more energy intensive. It's about 3x more energy intensive than the new scathis and about 2x the mavor.
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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby Azraeel » 07 Sep 2019, 23:13

Steel_Panther wrote:
keyser wrote:I'm not an expert in late game requiring game ender. But i can tell you that e cost isn't that important. At this point in the game you have set up power grid to handle the asf spam (no need to build pgen to build your game ender), and as said before you will be most likely stalling on mass rather than energy.


I agree, except for the Yolona. We could quibble about how much is a substantial enough power grid, but it is significantly more energy intensive than other game enders. You'll need 20k+ excess power, not counting all your other energy usage like shields and mexes, to build it in under 8 minutes, assuming you are putting 400 mass per second into it. If you want to build it faster, say with a good amount of stored mass, it will take more power. It costs a total of 10 million energy, so to build in 5 minutes, that means 2 million energy per minute, or 33,333 per second. Yes, a substantial air grid can handle this, but air would very likely have to be paused if you want to try to build it relatively quickly. That might be worth it, but in some situations (e.g. was air lost?) you might want to keep building a few more asfs to help protect the game ender vs strat snipes, so that makes it a bit of an issue compared to the other game enders.

To compare:
Yolo 10M energy, (187.7k mass) 53 e/mass
Mavor 6M (224.8k mass) 26.7 e/mass
Scathis 4.0M (220k mass) 18.2 e/mass
Paragon 7.5M (250.2k mass) 30 e/mass
Salvation 5.4M (202.5k mass) 26.7 e/mass

Especially since the mavor, scathis and paragon are significantly more mass expensive, that means the yolo is relatively even more energy intensive. It's about 3x more energy intensive than the new scathis and about 2x the mavor.


10m E, Thats Insane. If its more expensive, why is it more expensive then the Paragon. Shit i might as well build a paragon over a Yolona Oss :shock: . Yolona Oss is truly a game ender tho. You'll blow through any amount of SMD with a yolona oss. The Reload rate of a Yolona Oss is insane anyway. I understand the cost maybe more mass then E?
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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby Endranii » 10 Sep 2019, 17:43

Azraeel wrote:Yolo is uncounterable

Actually no, it takes 8/9 smd to fully counter Yolona so it's not like it's unstopable.It costs a lot of mass and E to fend it off but it's doable just like against mavor/scathis.
Or you can just meme with space lazer and pay 1/7 of the mass cost to render it unusable(unless it got changed and I missed it).
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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby keyser » 10 Sep 2019, 18:17

Endranii wrote:
Azraeel wrote:Yolo is uncounterable

Actually no, it takes 8/9 smd to fully counter Yolona so it's not like it's unstopable.It costs a lot of mass and E to fend it off but it's doable just like against mavor/scathis.
Or you can just meme with space lazer and pay 1/7 of the mass cost to render it unusable(unless it got changed and I missed it).


well i'm still waiting on a replay where 1 team doesn't build tons of smd and just spam novax to constantly block the opponent yolo
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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby Endranii » 10 Sep 2019, 20:51

Ok seems like some BIG BRAIN made the missle unkillable for the beam weaponry? So you can no longer just laser it. But the point still stands, you overall spend less mass on novax to protect THE WHOLE MAP including navies and shit with just 2 novax centres. Just park satelite over the Yolona and watch the nukes explode each time they launch.

Also not my fault people are sleeping on some things considering them to be just to cancerous to play or just outright remove them as we have seen in many instances.

Edit:#10206190 You can block everything no matter where the nuke goes anyway. And considering that Yolona is already a team effort then nothing stops you from making novax as team effort too. At least it saves you from making literally 24 SMD to cover MID BEACH and ROCK. Also Novax is way harder to snipe than 24 SMDs.

PPS:Novax is also way easier to assist as the Satelite takes less BP. Also it comes with one satelite already done, so you are ready to intercept first nuke the moment Novax Centre is out unlike with SMD which then have to be make the missle.
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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby keyser » 10 Sep 2019, 21:26

Endranii wrote:Ok seems like some BIG BRAIN made the missle unkillable for the beam weaponry? So you can no longer just laser it. But the point still stands, you overall spend less mass on novax to protect THE WHOLE MAP including navies and shit with just 2 novax centres. Just park satelite over the Yolona and watch the nukes explode each time they launch.

Also not my fault people are sleeping on some things considering them to be just to cancerous to play or just outright remove them as we have seen in many instances.

Edit:#10206190 You can block everything no matter where the nuke goes anyway. And considering that Yolona is already a team effort then nothing stops you from making novax as team effort too. At least it saves you from making literally 24 SMD to cover MID BEACH and ROCK. Also Novax is way harder to snipe than 24 SMDs.

PPS:Novax is also way easier to assist as the Satelite takes less BP. Also it comes with one satelite already done, so you are ready to intercept first nuke the moment Novax Centre is out unlike with SMD which then have to be make the missle.


"well i'm still waiting on a replay where 1 team doesn't build tons of smd and just spam novax to constantly block the opponent yolo"

ok i reformulate, provide me a real game and not a sandbox where the condition i just said are covered.

Also if you wanna make a sandbox, do it properly next time. build 1 yolo for 1 team and few novax in a safe spot for the other team. Then start doing the novax dance. Then calculate the cost in price.
Some tips, i guess you will already need at least 5 novax (180k mass) so that's already the price of the yolo in terms of mass. Then you add 10k per sat you lose, knowing that the yolo fire every minute without assist.

and by novax dance i mean positioning them over the yolo, then rebuilding them one after the other, and sending them through the whole map 1 after 1 during 10-20 minutes.
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Re: Patch 3704 Release Thread

Postby Endranii » 10 Sep 2019, 22:05

At worst you need 3 centres to stop yolo, normally 2 should be enough if you get them on time.
Now you need 24 SMD anyway to cover the 3 main bases, after all you don't want to lose any part of the map that you have as it will mean losing not only beach/rock but also middle.
That is already 180k mass compared to 78K(not counting the mass in satelite as novax comes with one) mass in novax centres. Now each missile is obviously 3.6k mass, so 7.2k to defend from single nuke, meaning 2.8k less than satelite cost per nuke. BUT, we need to multiply that by 3 as we have 3 core bases to protect on MID lane(covers AIr too) BEACH and Rock, leaving us with 21.6k mass per nuke. Which is staggering 11.6k mass more than if we were to use novax. Don't even start on energy upkeep costs and the fact that assisting novax is way faster than multiple SMD' across whole map.

And guess what there is still no navy SMD and there never will be so novax actually protects our naval force too, it protects everything from all kinds of nuclear threats.

Your turn keyser.

Edit:Although honestly I should just stop as clearly you have your own vision of how units are SUPPOSED to be used anyway. Same as was with all the time it took to even slightly buff the T1 AA options for aeon navy, it just not worth the time spent. Better get that stupid Diamond in lol, at least there will be sense of achievement.
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