SACu conceptual rework

[Iszh]

UEF scu has a unique toy, a 52k life shield. under this shield you can face a monkeylord with a fatboy. And additionally have a nice huge omni next to fatty. You can protect high value units like a nuke defense, t3 stat arti or your acu like no other faction.

i think he is right about titans because the scus cant handle a huge number of units but with the "special toys" they can defeat a smaller number of big targets like percies.

[Ithilis_Quo]

what is funny is how everyone in forum say sacus are pretty ok. and then rage in game how hard op it is

basicaly, sacu are uncounterable. Isnt weapon that can efective counter sacu.. with T3 units its nearly not posible defeat sacu. you must invest X time more mass on army to defeat sacu so in finnal on time when sacu come out T3 units are ussles, Also T4 units whiteout range are ussles, because cant defeat sacu for simmilar mass. So game start be only about how to snipe someone, or how to make more sacu that defend against other sacu...

most pathetic its posible see on aeon, because aeon sacu is hard shit, so make no sence to build them.. and what can aeon do against other sacu? How aeon stop uef/sera/cybran rambo? They have nothing because dont have own sacu..

We can tweak weapon to take less/more dps, yes of course. but this post is not about that. This is about another advantage that sacu have and that is posibility to imediatly reclaim everything and build everithing, even when are strongest weapon in game. Simply units that is strongest in game cant have posibility to imeditly reclaim what destroy (same problem on megalith) and dont leave any reclaim for oponents. Its very big advantage that is systematical wrong. Again imagine harbringer with 20br. and posibility to build. would it be ok ?

[Apofenas]

With current balance titans with mobile shields do better than percivals, which is kinda funny.

Really? Is this some kind of joke or was this meant seriously??

We tested it with Keyser. Mircoed percivals vs microed cybran SCUs and microed titans vs microed cybran SCUs. Both sides had equal mass in units. Titans did better. The reason for it is their shield blocks emp for ~3 shots and amount of mass stunned by SCUs at same time is less than in percival case. So as ability of titans to surround SCUs and prevent them from going out of range and regenning their health back. Dodging titan shots is far harder and matters almost nothing(so as shots that gone through SCU cause of broken hitboxes)

[keyser]

Shield blocked emp ? i didn't remember this. For me it was only the fact that a lot of percy were perma stun since they were a few number of percy, and you can't stun all titan. + the speed of the titan can fill up the range gap pretty fast (even with emp). the best was loya, if i remember well, even more because the stun of loya can stun the sACU.

[Col_Walter_Kurtz]

basicaly, sacu are uncounterable. Isnt weapon that can efective counter sacu.. with T3 units its nearly not posible defeat sacu.

If the fact that T3 doesn't go well against SCU's is evidence of them being uncounterable, then T4 are uncounterable too. The argument you make simply doesn't hold water. Lower tech gets trumped by higher tech. You can't just keep spending the same amount of mass on lower tech and expect to win. You must spread your units and raid stuff instead of going head to head.

I would not consider SCU's a T3 unit by the way, they are in their own group between T3 and T4. Basically you make T4 to counter T3.5, or you make air, pd, shields, etc.

We can tweak weapon to take less/more dps, yes of course. but this post is not about that. This is about another advantage that sacu have and that is posibility to imediatly reclaim everything and build everithing, even when are strongest weapon in game. Simply units that is strongest in game cant have posibility to imeditly reclaim what destroy (same problem on megalith) and dont leave any reclaim for oponents. Its very big advantage that is systematical wrong. Again imagine harbringer with 20br. and posibility to build. would it be ok ?

Like someone pointed out before me, this ability to reclaim / build and the fact they leave no mass did zero for them in 2007 - 2014. This means the discussion is in fact about tweaking DPS or other attributes.

[Ithilis_Quo]

Like someone pointed out before me, this ability to reclaim / build and the fact they leave no mass did zero for them in 2007 - 2014. This means the discussion is in fact about tweaking DPS or other attributes.

because on 07-13 was sacu too expensive to build. so of course it got zero impact when was no sacu in game. Its as say that T3 AA isnt strong/weak because on 07-14 none was build them...

Can you imagine harbringer with 20 build rate on reclaim? If not then why?

this post is about, split sacu on 2 respective 3 units type.
FIGHTER
BUILDER
SUPORTER

where FIGHTER dont have that strong reclaim ability as builder or supporter

[Col_Walter_Kurtz]

where FIGHTER dont have that strong reclaim ability as builder or supporter

Ok I can see where you're coming from. But would it really make a difference? You don't need huge buildpower to suck up reclaim. A couple of t1 engies does the trick in most cases. Or do you think it matters for making SAM etc.? It can be annyong to chew through the shield while the SCU spams up SAM

[Ithilis_Quo]

Yes it matter, in game you dont see it, because it show later on time, when you recognise enemy have much more reclaim as you, and build much more units (sacu) as you can.

Yes enginer do same, but enginer isnt weapon itself where sacu is. And you dont take enginer with you on fight, so enemy can at least try secure reclaim, where sacu reclaim it imediatly. again.. harbringer with 20br its ok or not? why ?

And actual situation is that couple of sacu san spam shield and sams nearly imediatly. 2 sacu make sam in 11second, that is less as bomber come back for second drop. And after it can reclaim sams back, and reclaim bomber.

[yeager]

Hmmmm, I think it is supposed to go like this (in that this is how gpg intended)
Uef- super build speed, can make insta-fire base
Cybran- can handle itself in every sircumstance, doesn't excel in anything in particular, great for getting those lonely mass spots mid games etc.
Sera - I think this was supposed to be the best SACU with the insta ras and great dmg and oC upgrade ( I think this was there answer to exp defense since the chicken often does more harm than good)
Aeon - made to be the king of kiting, and a helpful unit.

How I feel they should be now:
Uef: insane builder, incapable of fighting exps, but can defend against them with great t3 pd spam
Cybran: good all rounder, should have great aa and decent damage. I feel like this should have a much more powerful death nuke, this way it could act like a sucide, like a 3.5 fire beetle
Sera: most expensive, ras built in. Basically you have to buy ras, unavoidable, but on the other side you can have ras and 3 other upgrades, bal would be necessary. OC should cost more, but I dot think it needs a huge nerf, I mean, it's useless without micro an doesn't work against acus and doesnt d full damage against buildings. as for tac, increase height, so it can't fly threw shields, but that's all
Aeon: oh boy, this ones a doosy... But I'll give it a go. I think it should be an anti-Percival/Brick, as aeon gets run over if they can't get GC up fast enough or if enough percivals or bricks pile up before the GC can finish the job. I think a huge damage- low fire rate unit would make sense, with enough range and sped to kite a Percy (assuming the map has the room) but not enough life to survive gunships, bombers, exps, kinda like a 3.5 aurora.
As for everything I feel like all the sACUs should cost more, not be nerfed to h-e- double hockey sticks
Thx for reading all the way through

[yeager]

also remember, advancement is evolutionary, not revolutionary, try to stop with the giant/ mile long reworks, I think you have some good ideas, but until the major issues are fixed your just waesting your breath