SACu conceptual rework

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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby Col_Walter_Kurtz » 09 Jul 2015, 11:29

yeager wrote:has an engineering suit/ and doesn't leave a wreak so...


That hasn't helped them in the last 8 years. No one used them because they sucked. Now everyone makes them because they are good in combat. So that's what matters. You can't value the build / no wreck attributes objectively anyway. People will just use the cheapest build power as soon as the SACU is once again reduced to a silly super-builder.

I know you are not trying to make SACU's silly super-engineers, the point I'm making is that they should only be balanced as combat units / for their combat abilities.
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby yeager » 09 Jul 2015, 17:07

True, but killing a unit equivilant to a small exp should have some reward
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby KD7BCH » 10 Jul 2015, 01:32

yeager wrote:True, but killing a unit equivilant to a small exp should have some reward


The reward I'd give is the ability to kill it FASTER and keep your base intact.
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby yeager » 10 Jul 2015, 02:25

I'm just saying kill a megalith can win you the game, killing its equal in scus just means you survive.
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby KD7BCH » 10 Jul 2015, 15:07

I am in agreement with you and I think they need an HP nerf. Played a game where the front guy got killed and they came in with a fatty and two SCUs, the fatty died in about 45 sec to T3 air, and after the SCU took out almost half my mexes and my auxillary mass FAB grids then they finally got the 2nd SCU I was engaged with it with my ACU and overcharged that bastard.

They have too much HP.

Nobody will build them If they don't kick ass, so I think their fire rate and dps should stay. I also think they should be an option to help rush builds and ramp an eco to 1000 mass and best used as auxiliary support in a turtle busting role when the turtle has heavy air support. However, they have what I feel is about double the HP they should with the damage rate they cause. The fact that they can blow up and leave no mass means since they are more effective than of the EXPs against base defenses it makes sense to use them more than it does EXPs which makes no sense because EXPs are the king on the battlefield. SCUs are support units.

I don't agree with nerfin the damage they do to relegate them to oversized engineers and take them back to 2006 but I do favor cutting down their HP so they can't overrun anything on the battlefield, and right now if you have 4-8 of them you can overrun just about any combined defense.
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby yeager » 10 Jul 2015, 15:50

But what about say sera?if you have 5 you can one shot just about anything before it's even in range, and cybrans don't need the health, they just permanent stun anything that isn't an exp, see what I mean here?
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby KD7BCH » 10 Jul 2015, 17:31

Nope can you elaborate like I'm noob more please :D ?
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby yeager » 11 Jul 2015, 16:24

Seraphim are OP because overcharge, it is cheap fr it's damage and works like a charm, and with the range upgrade they are only getting shot by say a GC for about a second before yet overcharge, so if there is 6 or so of them ( probably more but you get it) they can still kill a GC without losing a single scu, as for cybran they are OP because they can emp an unlimited amount of non experimentals, health doesn't matter if you never get shot. This is why decreasing health won't work well.
Ps uef also has the range/damage/aoe to be fine on half health, also health isn't the issue, it's that damn shield, units like ye holy ilshavoh are entirely useless vs it and if you pare them with a fat boy no experimental has the health to take them on.
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby KD7BCH » 13 Jul 2015, 19:20

yeager wrote:Seraphim are OP because overcharge, it is cheap fr it's damage and works like a charm, and with the range upgrade they are only getting shot by say a GC for about a second before yet overcharge, so if there is 6 or so of them ( probably more but you get it) they can still kill a GC without losing a single scu, as for cybran they are OP because they can emp an unlimited amount of non experimentals, health doesn't matter if you never get shot. This is why decreasing health won't work well.
Ps uef also has the range/damage/aoe to be fine on half health, also health isn't the issue, it's that damn shield, units like ye holy ilshavoh are entirely useless vs it and if you pare them with a fat boy no experimental has the health to take them on.


I was thinking they move slow enough that the obvious counter would be air, so it they had fewer HPs you could kill them effectively with Strats or FBs or gunships. Against and EXP yes they'd have to be attacked from the right angle and continuing to press their attack against something other than the EXP. I still think air should be the effective counter to them and by reducing hp you make that possible. Do you suggest leaving them with that hp level and just nerfing their attack?
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Re: SACu conceptual rework

Postby yeager » 13 Jul 2015, 20:49

I'm saying it depends on the scu, I'm fine with uef having a lot of health but not nearly as much damage, and cybran can have pitiful health put keep the emp etc. so different units have different counters and jobs
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