ASF fly higher than Ahwassa

[Emperor]

I think the better solution is:
- Raise the elevation of the Ahwassa
- Introduce an armor to T3 ASF's that only receive 862 damage (about 50% ASF health) from the bomb
- Bomb can hurt Ahwassa that drops it

Wow,
First comment with an actual good solution, besides that it should be easy to implement since it is just under the dmg of the bomb.

Btw, when do you need to drop the bomb, everytime i try the bomb just falls trough the asf swarm which is anoing...

[SC-Account]

Lol @ all those jealous noobs that can't bomb ASF with Ahwassa and think it is uncounterable XD
Never mind that it is infinitely harder to bomb ASF than to counter micro against it. Let alone that even 150 ASF on idle, attack move, patrol, or ground would always win against an Ahwassa.. you can kill 50 (if they are all chasing and unmicroed.

Isn't it great to be posting bullshit about balance rather than bothering to test it once in Sandbox? You can even do it vs. AI or civilians and you would instantly see that you are about to post crap and can adjust your statements so they are at least not complete garbage.. it is like checking sources and stuff. Make discussions so much more fruitful. Even in the most favourable Situation where the opponent is just clicking on it mindlessly an Ahwassa can beat 60 ASF at a time at best which still don't even cost half the mass so even in such an unlikely Situation an Ahwassa is no counter to ASF at all.


I think balance topics not providing a replay and using the exact numbers according to the provided replay (while instead stating random numbers and "facts" pulled directly out of someone's arse) should instantly be removed as spam.

[Zoram]

Lol @ all those jealous noobs that can't bomb ASF with Ahwassa and think it is uncounterable XD
Never mind that it is infinitely harder to bomb ASF than to counter micro against it. Let alone that even 150 ASF on idle, attack move, patrol, or ground would always win against an Ahwassa.. you can kill 50 (if they are all chasing and unmicroed.

Isn't it great to be posting bullshit about balance rather than bothering to test it once in Sandbox? You can even do it vs. AI or civilians and you would instantly see that you are about to post crap and can adjust your statements so they are at least not complete garbage.. it is like checking sources and stuff. Make discussions so much more fruitful. Even in the most favourable Situation where the opponent is just clicking on it mindlessly an Ahwassa can beat 60 ASF at a time at best which still don't even cost half the mass so even in such an unlikely Situation an Ahwassa is no counter to ASF at all.


I think balance topics not providing a replay and using the exact numbers according to the provided replay (while instead stating random numbers and "facts" pulled directly out of someone's arse) should instantly be removed as spam.

Is it time for the alpha nerd contest again ?

[SC-Account]

Lol @ all those jealous noobs that can't bomb ASF with Ahwassa and think it is uncounterable XD
Never mind that it is infinitely harder to bomb ASF than to counter micro against it. Let alone that even 150 ASF on idle, attack move, patrol, or ground would always win against an Ahwassa.. you can kill 50 (if they are all chasing and unmicroed.

Isn't it great to be posting bullshit about balance rather than bothering to test it once in Sandbox? You can even do it vs. AI or civilians and you would instantly see that you are about to post crap and can adjust your statements so they are at least not complete garbage.. it is like checking sources and stuff. Make discussions so much more fruitful. Even in the most favourable Situation where the opponent is just clicking on it mindlessly an Ahwassa can beat 60 ASF at a time at best which still don't even cost half the mass so even in such an unlikely Situation an Ahwassa is no counter to ASF at all.


I think balance topics not providing a replay and using the exact numbers according to the provided replay (while instead stating random numbers and "facts" pulled directly out of someone's arse) should instantly be removed as spam.

Is it time for the alpha nerd contest again ?

Oh yes I forgot it is a major offence to point out bullshit, while fabricating it isn't.

[Zoram]

Lol @ all those jealous noobs that can't bomb ASF with Ahwassa and think it is uncounterable XD
Never mind that it is infinitely harder to bomb ASF than to counter micro against it. Let alone that even 150 ASF on idle, attack move, patrol, or ground would always win against an Ahwassa.. you can kill 50 (if they are all chasing and unmicroed.

Isn't it great to be posting bullshit about balance rather than bothering to test it once in Sandbox? You can even do it vs. AI or civilians and you would instantly see that you are about to post crap and can adjust your statements so they are at least not complete garbage.. it is like checking sources and stuff. Make discussions so much more fruitful. Even in the most favourable Situation where the opponent is just clicking on it mindlessly an Ahwassa can beat 60 ASF at a time at best which still don't even cost half the mass so even in such an unlikely Situation an Ahwassa is no counter to ASF at all.


I think balance topics not providing a replay and using the exact numbers according to the provided replay (while instead stating random numbers and "facts" pulled directly out of someone's arse) should instantly be removed as spam.

Is it time for the alpha nerd contest again ?

Oh yes I forgot it is a major offence to point out bullshit, while fabricating it isn't.

it's a subjective argument on what boils down to a matter of taste. Replays have been provided by some.
You acting like an obnoxious jerk isn't pointing out anything but your liking for playground rethoric.

[SC-Account]

it's a subjective argument on what boils down to a matter of taste. Replays have been provided by some.
You acting like an obnoxious jerk isn't pointing out anything but your liking for playground rethoric.

Yes yes 1+1+1 is 11 and your an asshole if you say that this is wrong, respect my opinion!

What replays have been provided?
The only one I saw shows 2 players that think your arguments are crap (me and Blackheart), it also shows about 30 ASF being killed, not 150.

What you don't seem to get is that I am not even arguing about whether ASF should get bombed by Ahwassa or not. I am just pointing out the blatant disinformation you guys are spreading, codepants does not get tiered of claiming that an Ahwassa can mass effectively beat ASF and that it could even kill 150 ASF and this just doesn't work even if we assume a maximum stupidity on the ASF owners part and maximum ingenuity on the Ahwassa's owners part. It doesn't matter if the ASF are being patrolled, idled, on attack move or even sitting on the ground without any reaction of their owner to the incoming Ahwassa at all. THEY WILL STILL WIN. You need to hold fire your ASF to make them lose to Ahwassa or send them in in groups of 50 while letting the Ahwassa heal in between, while not doing anything to prevent them dying to a single bomb. It is much harder to lose 150 ASF to an Ahwassa than losing 100 tanks to 10 T1 mobile artilleries, cause all it takes for the arties to win is the tank player being AFK, while 150 afk ASF STILL beat a single Ahwassa.
Of course I am willing to Sandbox all of it. Here you even have a replay of me trying to micro ASF AS RETARDED AS POSSIBLE against an Ahwassa trying about 100 times to lose 150 asf to a single Ahwassa bomb - not even succeeding once. So can you please stop spreading ridiculous bullshit that is backed up by nothing but thin air at first? And then you can restate your arguments on the basis of actual facts, and then maybe this thread can have some basic credibility, thanks.

Oh and also he claims it is impossible to avoid, while there is no player in FAF that can do it in a way I couldn't avoid it with even 3 APM and so can most players. Who is that mysterious guy that can micro Ahwassa "properly"? I definitely can't even kill 150 ASF microed by civilians, mb god can do it..

Edit:
While we are at it: Yesterday I saw 2 Labs in enemy base which had no land factory or any anti ground defences in it cause the guy (Crazed) went bomber first. The LABs could have won the entire game easily (in a 4v4).. if they where not reclaimed by engineers the very unit they are supposed to hunt down. Nerf engies pls? Or maybe the LAB guy got what he deserved for not microing his units in the most important seconds of the game.

Also in the same game I saw 30 Broadswords being killed by carrier tac missiles while sitting on the ground.. should Broadswords get special armour vs. tac missiles? Probably.

[Exotic_Retard]

maybe sc-acc is a jerk but at the very least this post is an almost perfect example of how you should respond to things like this - with replay evidence and some other examples as well as an analysis of some sort.

if all pros did this maybe these threads would not exist (for long) :/

all thats wrong with his post is maybe the way he said it, but everything he said i agree with

[Zoram]

all thats wrong with his post is maybe the way he said it, but everything he said i agree with

well, that's the thing. This forum is submerged by posts like this that seem to be written by dudes trying their damn hardest to look like master dorks. Very hard to focus on the argument at this point.

When I say subjective I mean that opinions on "should" it be possible to kill 150 ASF with a T4 bomber in one sec (regardless of the difficulty of achieving it), is a subjective opinion. I personnally think that all the hovering planes are silly and require a gimmick more akin to the execution of a combo in a street fighter game than a RTS mechanic. This is quite subjective as well. Most people seem to disagree with me on that, so be it.

As for all arguments based on hard numbers, maybe they were made-up Bulshit, by all mean, point it out, but they were not the only argument being made, and it is quite a strawman argument to lable the whole opposing side of the argument as "jealous noobs".

[Zoram]

it's a subjective argument on what boils down to a matter of taste. Replays have been provided by some.
You acting like an obnoxious jerk isn't pointing out anything but your liking for playground rethoric.

Yes yes 1+1+1 is 11 and your an asshole if you say that this is wrong, respect my opinion!

What replays have been provided?
The only one I saw shows 2 players that think your arguments are crap (me and Blackheart), it also shows about 30 ASF being killed, not 150.

I never used any figure, as this never happened to me, and probably never will. .

What you don't seem to get is that I am not even arguing about whether ASF should get bombed by Ahwassa or not.

Me neither really...

I am just pointing out the blatant disinformation you guys are spreading,

And I'm just pointing out that you express yourself like an high school bully throwing a tantrum. Since you have arguments, this is quite unnecessary.

[SC-Account]

all thats wrong with his post is maybe the way he said it, but everything he said i agree with

well, that's the thing. This forum is submerged by posts like this that seem to be written by dudes trying their damn hardest to look like master dorks. Very hard to focus on the argument at this point.

When I say subjective I mean that opinions on "should" it be possible to kill 150 ASF with a T4 bomber in one sec (regardless of the difficulty of achieving it), is a subjective opinion. I personnally think that all the hovering planes are silly and require a gimmick more akin to the execution of a combo in a street fighter game than a RTS mechanic. This is quite subjective as well. Most people seem to disagree with me on that, so be it.

As for all arguments based on hard numbers, maybe they were made-up Bulshit, by all mean, point it out, but they were not the only argument being made, and it is quite a strawman argument to lable the whole opposing side of the argument as "jealous noobs".

This forum is submerged in bullshit, that is the problem. No it is not about looking like a genius. I also don't have any disrespect for noobs and I don't judge people by their rating number.
What pisses me off is people claiming random stuff they never tested and never saw happening in any game they played or watched (please prove me wrong) and want the game to be changed based on their made up "facts". Then I see plenty of people happily agreeing, again without any fact checking or based on any of their own experiences. None of them ever bothering to check numbers, let alone actually trying to bomb ASF themselves to see how feasible it is. So yes for me that looks like jealous noobs blaming the game mechanics for their own mistakes, rather than people concerned with balance.

I would even take a balance thread from a 0 rated player with 1 online game serious if he tested his stuff beforehand, used accurate numbers and rather than asking for a balance change right away would ask for counter measures etc., first determining if there even is a balance problem, but no: Instead we have a post with blatantly wrong numbers, demonstrably wrong assertions and a precise balance change suggestion that comes with it. This is what I call bullshit.

Sure, there are arrogant high rated players that dismiss peoples suggestions right away and threads like this highly contribute to such attitudes being reinforced.

I never used any figure, as this never happened to me, and probably never will. .

Well then, I don't see what you are even doing in this thread? Why do you think your opinion on something you never had anything to do with has any value to a balance discussion?

Edit:
Oh btw, Zoram: I even agree with your assertions, a more realistic air unit system would be a huge plus in my opinion. But that is gameplay, not balance and it has nothing to do with what the thread opener has been arguing about. You could open a separate thread for it. It is however not like such physic improvements have never been suggested before, the issue is that they need to be programmed properly and then fit into the game balance wise and unlike you do that on your own I don't think it is gonna happen. Ahwassa bombing ASF would still happen, though. You do not need to hover to do it, especially if Ahwassa would be less bugged. It also is not necessarily unrealistic that Ahwassa takes little damage from its bomb, it could simply be provided with armour and counter measures that would allow it to survive a non direct hit of its own main weapon, while hundreds of light armoured small units would die in an instant - don't think that is too far off. As of today there are even vehicles and spaceship designs that use high explosives and even hydrogen bombs to propel themselves (don't think anything chasing them in close proximity would look too good after a few detonations).