Beta patch discussion - and asfs

[nebs]

Hi Sup Com forums

Yeah first post maybe sticking my neck out a bit but whatever.

I am looking at the Sera ACU changes, and I while I know it would be a bit unpopular, I really think to be more balanced and also shake up
the game play, it would instead be better to move the T2/T3 upgrade to the right arm, so it is either/or with the gun, same as the other
double gun factions. This preserves the option for T2 and restoration field to make a navy support com more viable. It also means the double RAS
factions do need to sacrifice the survivability options the back upgrades give as a trade-off. It actually does make factions more diverse
since it differentiates from the UEF com which doesn't get the extra gun, tacpac sera com couldn't take gun so would be a bit more vulnerable.

Having to activate an ability on the loyas seems out of place, especially when sup com micro is more about the movement, since few other RTS have
real dodging of basic attacks, and arranging your units positioning for a better engagement. The ACU of course has a few more abilities but that is only one unit.
A toggle might be doable, similar to stealth etc.

That said, the change to the percie to reduce its alpha but keeping the loyas hps as they currently are would mean they don't get two-shot and would get
a better chance to close and stun normally, especially from the flanks, without needing a fancy new activated ability. And let them keep half their dps buff on
the bolters. This way they regain competitiveness vs other factions and lose less hard once percy numbers grow, ideally you would want to be building them (and titans) first on most maps / match ups in the early T3 stage so they get their time to shine.

[nebs]

(split to get around spam filter)

Fire beetle changes look great and i can't wait to see the radar and visual range interaction it will create

For a while the sera and aeon T2 and T3 engies had a small build power buff since no hives or kennels. it would be nice as a nod to Sup com history
to give the range buff just to them and not the other factions (and yes, faction diversity!)

I think the swiftie cost increase is too much, especially with the T2 air factory HQ. in so many games i see swifties having a limited impact
because spamming inties is cheap and easy and it can take a while for the swiftie numbers to build up, then T3 air is not far away and they become redundant fast
since they lose so hard to ASF. with this change they are over 4 times intie mass cost and the ASF is only 50% more...power cost is less an issue with both higher efficiency and adjacency discounts.

Speaking of ASF, the build cost reduction, without cost increase, means more mass and power income for the air player to spend, on more air BP even if they wish,
so i think it will have limited effect. They are already pretty cheap mass wise, and the air player soon often ends up with mass to spare so just ecos
as air engagements can be easily avoided. so air player=eco player most games it would be good to break this up by increasing T3 air cost (specifically ASF).

Anyway think that was it i can get back to my tequila, this is looking like a great patch with the buffs and changes, much thanks to everyone who keeps this show going!

[keyser]

i will only talk about what i've been handling

I am looking at the Sera ACU changes, and I while I know it would be a bit unpopular, I really think to be more balanced and also shake up
the game play, it would instead be better to move the T2/T3 upgrade to the right arm, so it is either/or with the gun, same as the other
double gun factions. This preserves the option for T2 and restoration field to make a navy support com more viable. It also means the double RAS factions do need to sacrifice the survivability options the back upgrades give as a trade-off. It actually does make factions more diverse since it differentiates from the UEF com which doesn't get the extra gun, tacpac sera com couldn't take gun so would be a bit more vulnerable.

I do understand your proposal, which would achieve several goal :
1 - stack up tech + regen field when using it to support naval
2 - you don't need to remove tech later on, to vet your exp
3 - can't stack nano + ARAS

Even if i agree that those are good points, i would limit their impact on the game
1 - regen field was found to be really good with naval (thus we are limiting its bonus on naval). On top of that you can't stack the tech. The idea is pretty simple, you keep your ACU in your shipyard, and bring back from front the low hp destro. But you can pay for the nano (timing is later than the tech) and support your units on the front line.
2 - This is annoying, but not dramatic imo. (still worth it to drop tech to regen exp)
3 - This is imo a non-issue. If you reach the state where you want some extra protection on your com while being in your base (so late game where you get the double nano, because why not), then having or not the ARAS isn't important anymore. We are reaching income where the ARAS won't matter much.

What was intended is that, when you want to do a push, you need to choose between getting the regen field or the T2 upgrade. One will support your units and act perfectly in synergy with the gun; while the other one will allow you, on top of getting extra hp, to build radar on front line, AA in emergency, PD to secure the reclaim, or to start a arty fire base in range of your opponent base after taking a good position.

For a while the sera and aeon T2 and T3 engies had a small build power buff since no hives or kennels. it would be nice as a nod to Sup com history to give the range buff just to them and not the other factions (and yes, faction diversity!)

I think balance team once decided to implement engies station for other faction. It give too much of an advantage in certain situation; while being useless in others. If you start buff T2/T3 engie to compensate, you would just create imbalance in the situation where engies station aren't good. As for your proposal, it doesn't compensate the engie station advantage at all; introduction of engie station for the late T4 stage (mavor & co.) seems the only way to balance these situations.

Speaking of ASF, the build cost reduction, without cost increase, means more mass and power income for the air player to spend, on more air BP even if they wish, so i think it will have limited effect. They are already pretty cheap mass wise, and the air player soon often ends up with mass to spare so just ecos as air engagements can be easily avoided. so air player=eco player most games it would be good to break this up by increasing T3 air cost (specifically ASF).

For now they are only getting a speed nerf, we will look into more change in the next patches

[Hummelprinz]

Hello everyone,
my name is Hummelprinz, i've got around 1500 global and 1300 ladderating and i played Seraphim for over 1000 games. The patch states that the changes to the Seraphim Sniperbot deserve a nerv because it is choosen over the battletank. The Sniperbot isn't that good, it is only usefull in a handfull situations. The only reason people build more of them is because the tank is unplayable bad. The only Situation where you can build it it is when you need their hitpoints to prevent yourself from getting overrun. The problem is that they are giant, slow and have low range.
And now this patch makes this even worse. Less hp, less range, bigger hitbox. Okey the aoe now allows the tank to defeat t1 pointdefenses. But nobody builds an T3 tank to defeat an T1-pointdefense. The 0.1 more speed do nothing.
It would be understandable if you say "Okey the bad battletank is a factionweakness". But then do not nerv all alternatives. The arty and the sniperbot must be good to compensate for the bad tank.
If you want to make him to be good as a standalone then he needs a range and hpbuff. Percys and Bricks do have 32range to fire all their landweapons, that is 150% of the Seratank. The Harb has 27(this patch)(135%). You'll get never in range to stand a chance as long the enemy is not walking in your direction.
30range for the mainweapon and 26 for the 2guns and getting some more hp(5850, so he has not less hp per mass then the t2bot) would make him pickable.

greetings Hummelprinz