Beta patch discussion - and asfs

[Sovietpride]

And so we are back to ye olde Harbinger rush of doom.

Dont know what to make of the Percy changes. They already roflstomp Bricks anyway.

[Farmsletje]

they dont? 4head

[Ithilis_Quo]

There is much more balance issue, that is making whiteout understanding how this game codewise work.
Its kinda pointless to make some note what all is wrong with future balance patch, but whatever.
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- obsidian is better, but still, need acu firing priority to fix the main problem with obsidian, and that is dying to easily to OC whiteout possibility to spread them on the field.

- pillar, rhino range change this numbers don't follow any pattern, it just make total mesh on a place were was some beauty. Why 22/24 range? Where is the reasoning behind it ? Or why not 22,8range ? Units should have some range pattern. This is totally random, with hope that it will somehow work. Yes it will, probably, maybe, hopefully... this is not how professional should work.

- Riptide, this unit has a problem with dps that is different as should be - as should be i mean as was think it will be when was balanced. As i remember its 90dps, where it calculate as if its 120dps, Because this unit have weird x,5 dpg, and super fast firing pattern numbers go wrong on 0,1sec tick. This change will help, but the main problem is ignored, or probably not ignored but the balance "team" probably not even know that there is this problem.

- Rhino mass cost 290m This is a joke or serious? 7m cost discount ? Did they know why this unit the same as pillar cost this mount of mass ? Its because drain pattern to drain constant number and not some 5,7624 -> that show as 5. This only shows how little balance team understands why units have stats as they have.

- Blaze buff is nice.. of course, but still, this is not main problem what baze have, its moving issue that is retarded, and guess what fixed in equilibrium, ready to just copy it (and give credit)

- Firebeetle, haha. basicly they remove this unit from the game, and now there is some attempt on how to bring it back. I remember how much hate equilibrium clooked beetle gets. And now theay make the same It took some time, but gj. But these numbers are raterded. 190m cost ? Why not 182,6mass? Where did you come with these numbers ? I know where, put something into the calculator and get it there, but this is not how professional should work. 200m and adeqate e and bt, please.

- Harbringer - Rate of fire is retarded, its nice to have 1,85fr but at all its same as 2 and whole balance is make on something that has the same problem as the riptide. Seriously why this ppl do balance when obviously not understand the game?

- outhum area damage on the main cannon is huuuuuuuge mistake. Its long-range cannon and it mean outhum sometime do double damage, depend on pathfinding that is all time problem.

- sniper, ppl chose sniper ower main tanks its becasue you put them on that position. use main tanks is far more fun as long-range slow snipers. Buff of main tanks is the solution. At least harbringer is super shit, compared to others, and this buff will not solve it. Pro tip, think about the price that comes with energy maintaince. thats +- 40m cost to unit basicly for nothing.

- spectre, this firing pattern and damage.. its obvious how they come with this numbers, just calculator to have same dps, but it should not be only like that.

- veterancy change - whole veterancy concept is basically copypast from equilibrium, while they arbitrary change some stats to make it worse. And now after 3 years, they change it back welcome!

You can save 3 years if lisen. And you can save them also now...

[LabPunk]

I also like how the imba t3 arty nerfs, cybran and sera nerfed most, UEF less, Aeon basically not.

[Resistance]

this is just a beautiful patch,it's really needed for asfs to get a nerf and some modificartions for the actual t3 and t4,personally i was waiting long enough for the czar to be changed as well,i can feel a playable aeon at least now

[Wesmania]

What's the reasoning behind beetle changes?

- Cloak is only useful when coupled with a deceiver, radar coverage is usually better than vision coverage. I guess you can use that against smaller T2 armies, with the deceiver giving you a bit more time before beetles leave stealth range or the deceiver gets killed. With cloak you can also conceal your T2 army's real strength, though I'm not sure if just having more T2 tanks or Hoplites isn't a better option.
- Other than that, what other scenario is there? T1 armies are not worth beetling, T3 armies can kill beetles before they can reach them, even with deceivers, ACUs have omni and can kill beetles faster now. Economy killing via drops is less feasible, it's probably better to drop Cybran arties at this point. Stealthed army approach isn't any better with beetles, since deceivers can't be cloaked.

With this change, beetles get obsoleted after T2 even more while becoming hardly more effective against T2 armies (as explosion damage got nerfed more than cost did). If we're terrified of beetles becoming a com snipe tool again, why not make beetles deal DoT? Just like the mercy proposal, it'd allow ACUs to just move out of harm's way, while allowing for more tactical beetle uses than sending them off towards a tank and praying that pathfinding gets it there before it dies. Hell, you could even give it snipe / AoE / duration explosion presets.

[LabPunk]

At worst beetle changes don't matter, it's not like they were ever used seriously in the past few years.

[Ithilis_Quo]

The personal cloak is big thing, even if you can't imagine now it can possibly roll pretty hard.
Cybran have one small underused unit that is called "mole" t1 land scout, that also have a personal cloak and is super cheap. What means you should build 4 moles to single beetles to jammerize your enemy and do serious damage. Also with deceiver they are full invisible, deciver is very cheap and you should not have only one, that mean you will easily deliver hight damage into enemy army that he will not even notice what is going on until everything explode.

this is very good change (and you know.. its in eq for like 4 years:D )

[Wesmania]

The personal cloak is big thing, even if you can't imagine now it can possibly roll pretty hard.
Cybran have one small underused unit that is called "mole" t1 land scout, that also have a personal cloak and is super cheap. What means you should build 4 moles to single beetles to jammerize your enemy and do serious damage. Also with deceiver they are full invisible, deciver is very cheap and you should not have only one, that mean you will easily deliver hight damage into enemy army that he will not even notice what is going on until everything explode.

I guess the mole stuff matters for manual ACU targeting, assuming that he doesn't have fast rate of fire units with him that can vaporize moles immediately. I'm also not buying that "the enemy won't see it coming" argument, if I have the micro capacity to target enemy units with every single one of my beetles, then my opponent is probably capable of reacting to it. Lone charging deceivers are a very good giveaway. And again, T3 armies have too much vision and DPS for that to still be effective.

[Ithilis_Quo]

The personal cloak is big thing, even if you can't imagine now it can possibly roll pretty hard.
Cybran have one small underused unit that is called "mole" t1 land scout, that also have a personal cloak and is super cheap. What means you should build 4 moles to single beetles to jammerize your enemy and do serious damage. Also with deceiver they are full invisible, deciver is very cheap and you should not have only one, that mean you will easily deliver hight damage into enemy army that he will not even notice what is going on until everything explode.

I guess the mole stuff matters for manual ACU targeting, assuming that he doesn't have fast rate of fire units with him that can vaporize moles immediately. I'm also not buying that "the enemy won't see it coming" argument, if I have the micro capacity to target enemy units with every single one of my beetles, then my opponent is probably capable of reacting to it. Lone charging deceivers are a very good giveaway. And again, T3 armies have too much vision and DPS for that to still be effective.

single beetle is enought to serious damage your whole T1/T2 army. so if you miss one of them, you most probably will have a problem. Units target priority is from T3>T2>T1 so when you have some T3 in army units will shoot them first and not prioritize on beetles, what mean you must manual target them and gess with one is mole and with beetle. Deciver have 26r (?) what is quite a lot and give beetles enought time to come closer. One crucial think is stil lmissing, and thta is explode even when are destroyed, not only on manual lauch. But you know.. its classic balance team, take some good stuff, but break it to some worse version to be not so obvious, from where this ideas comes from.