Navy Balance, Ground Fire, and Intel

[ThomasHiatt]

You know you can place a ground fire command on the ground somewhere and then drag it over to what you actually want to groundfire to avoid the snap targetting stuff.

But you are correct, the game is stupid and the simulation mechanics are not consistent at all and often have horrible gameplay effects. The community is full of diehard fans that just defend the way things work even if they make no sense and are objectively bad.

[Ithilis_Quo]

ground fire should not damage subs? where does the line go? should cybran strats damage subs? static t2 t3 arty? ahwassa? Billy? nukes?
putting things deeper into the ocean sounds like an ideal solution.

This is actualy not posible, while we have so many maps that have shallow water and result of that is subs will stuck on place.

Tempest have 6 aoe, what is realy deep.

Strat bomber definitly should not be anti submarine unit. And IF yes then should not work only by manual groud fire but should have normal attack command as have on land/water units.

Actualy cybran strat is far better to deny subs as tropedo bombers.

[Farmsletje]

no they are not

[ThomasHiatt]

T1 bombers are the most effective unit vs t1 subs if you can manage to hit them. The higher damage ones can kill a t1 sub in two passes, or two bombers kill in 1 pass for cheaper than a torp. Of course, this is really hard and t1 bombers die a lot easier than torps, but it is still stupid.

[TheKoopa]

Buff aeon by bringing back underwater targeting to its t1 bombers!

[Farmsletje]

If someone spends 30 seconds microing a t1 bomber trying to kill a t1 sub then i will gladly grant him that kill.

[Mach]

Just saying I agree, underwater units may be hit by surface weapons according to current simulation, but they are designed to be underwater units unable of getting damaged by surface weapons (except massive explosions that reach that far, which is not a battleship cannon)

micro shouldnt give surface weapons special ability to hit underwater units when units themselves dont even consider those targettable, unless you want to give every unit underwater targetting ability and then see how ridiculous it is that this is possible, but this isnt a problem of unit targetting/micro, it is a problem with way the simulation works, specifically max depth and height

this problem exists because of same reason air units fly so low although planes technically can fly kilometers higher (and why submarines "sail" so close to water surface), its to fit the game size (insert novax in space argument), yet you cant shoot at flying air units by microed pd (well technically you can, but when did you last see that happen?), so why should underwater units get hit by microed surface only weapon that isnt supposed to be able to hit them by very game design and only is able to due to limited height used for simulation and by micro only? And I dont agree that just because its microed a unit has justified "special abilities" compared to unmicroed (battleships cant target underwater units with their cannons in first place, yet microing them turns them into anti submarine units apparently).

[Steel_Panther]

If someone spends 30 seconds microing a t1 bomber trying to kill a t1 sub then i will gladly grant him that kill.

That's not the real problem. The problem is situations like this one time I had about 8 t3 subs stacked up and lost them in one pass to about 15 t1 bombers ground firing. That took 1 second of micro and is BOTH unrealistic and makes for poor gameplay.

[Steel_Panther]

But you are correct, the game is stupid and the simulation mechanics are not consistent at all and often have horrible gameplay effects. The community is full of diehard fans that just defend the way things work even if they make no sense and are objectively bad.

"Of course it's perfectly fine that a 1% complete t1 radar that cost 1 mass can block a tml missile! IT'S A SIMULATION!"

[Azraeel]

I agree, we needs subs to be deeper in the ocean to above ground fire from being so op. Subs are already trash, and this makes them more trash.