How to make cybran not the only faction that is played ever

[Blodir]

(...in 1v1 ofc)

Since time immemorial the strategy of the various balance teams has been to nerf cybran, because they are the most popular faction by far. This is a bad strategy. Here's a short list of some reasons I prefer playing cybran over other factions (and you wont fix them just by reducing some building hp etc..)

Aeon
- Aurora are insane weak on certain maps where you have to defend raids on multiple fronts
- Aurora cant raid
- Aurora vs bombers
- Aurora vs mongoose/hoplites
- Aeon has no way to kill t1 units efficiently in t2 (this is super important) !!!!!
- Aeon has no fighterbomber so no real way to use air control if u get it (gunship are comparatively garbage since they get countered hard by ground to air unlike corsair)
- I absolutely love restorer but sadly they kinda suck so no decent t3 gunship also no strat aoe so t3 air is worthless against land
- Frigates are bad
- Tmd is ultra garbage on some maps and god tier on others. Its super annoying to use
- GC vs Mega

Sera
- No t1 naval anti air so instaraped by torps
- t3 land is very strong in some situations and very weak in others
- Yotha is useless to begin with and then u add the fact that cybran has Mega and u never want to go late game (this is really important)
- no t3 gunship so air is pretty useless (important)

UEF
- no t1 naval anti air
- no destroyer
- have to build coopers for anti torp instead of spamming pure destro frig like cybran
- expensive battleship
- janus suck at sniping mex, power, other things. And they also arent all that great vs army either so similar problem to aeon: its hard to use air advantage on t2
- t1 bomber is useless
- no way to attack with t3/t4 land (fatty vs arty and t3 air)

Also just in general cybran is the only faction that can use t1 air because of jester (bombers are useless after expansion phase)


Cybran is fun to play because they actually have the tools to deal with every situation whereas other factions always have some crippling weakness that either forces you to play in a certain way (removing player agency) or straight up kills you.

[ZLO_RD]

i like to discuss things... so i add just a little bit of my opinion on that.
imho obsidians are not that bad against t1... more of an issue that they are slow and expencive and drain power... if you are not getting completely swarmed they are actually ok against t1 and you usually have some auroras left, so lab spam is risky against obsidians, also blaze was buffed a fair bit, have not tested it but it should not be a complete joke right now...

afaik aeon on navy also don't have much of a t1 antiair. They need to invest into it while cyb just gets it as a bonus.

UEF t1 bomber is decent imho... it even has higher hp .
2-shot pgens and mexes can be pretty brutal and while factory-blocking it does kill it resonably fast.
Janus vs army - need to ask turin about it... i can only say that it does not look very effective but it is pretty scary xD. i have seen many kills on turin's januses.

mostly agree with the rest, but other then negatives, factions also have positive things... like shields for aeon. mongoose, shield, sparky for UEF ect ect, don't wanna list every unit of every faction in every situation when it becomes good...

Edit: well actually mass obsidians vs mass cybran t1 with 40% mantis and 60% medusa sounds scary for aeon, aslo arty will rape mobile shields.

[Little Miss Murder]

Cybran have the best snipe options by far. Jester, corsair, stealth strats, tml that can both be stealthed and have useful damage past tmd; monkey, bug. Hell, even beetle snipes are still a thing. I reckon that for 1v1, the factional balance issues are a distant second to this primary advantage. The only other faction that has something similar is Aeon, but mercies are unreliable at best.

[keyser]

(...in 1v1 ofc)

Since time immemorial the strategy of the various balance teams has been to nerf cybran, because they are the most popular faction by far. This is a bad strategy. Here's a short list of some reasons I prefer playing cybran over other factions (and you wont fix them just by reducing some building hp etc..)

Aeon
- Aurora are insane weak on certain maps where you have to defend raids on multiple fronts
- Aurora cant raid
- Aurora vs bombers
- Aurora vs mongoose/hoplites
- Aeon has no way to kill t1 units efficiently in t2 (this is super important) !!!!!
- Aeon has no fighterbomber so no real way to use air control if u get it (gunship are comparatively garbage since they get countered hard by ground to air unlike corsair)
- I absolutely love restorer but sadly they kinda suck so no decent t3 gunship also no strat aoe so t3 air is worthless against land
- Frigates are bad
- Tmd is ultra garbage on some maps and god tier on others. Its super annoying to use
- GC vs Mega

Sera
- No t1 naval anti air so instaraped by torps
- t3 land is very strong in some situations and very weak in others
- Yotha is useless to begin with and then u add the fact that cybran has Mega and u never want to go late game (this is really important)
- no t3 gunship so air is pretty useless (important)

UEF
- no t1 naval anti air
- no destroyer
- have to build coopers for anti torp instead of spamming pure destro frig like cybran
- expensive battleship
- janus suck at sniping mex, power, other things. And they also arent all that great vs army either so similar problem to aeon: its hard to use air advantage on t2
- t1 bomber is useless
- no way to attack with t3/t4 land (fatty vs arty and t3 air)

Also just in general cybran is the only faction that can use t1 air because of jester (bombers are useless after expansion phase)


Cybran is fun to play because they actually have the tools to deal with every situation whereas other factions always have some crippling weakness that either forces you to play in a certain way (removing player agency) or straight up kills you.

several of this points are addressed in current beta

[MrTBSC]

reason i played cybran .. intresting unitset that´s not just hurr durr throw stuff on the enemy but also, hey let´s try sneaky stuff with decievers and stealth ... heck even their air and seaunits offer sneaky abilities .. let´s have some fun with beatles cause suicidebombers are always fun ... ...*cough* ... (and now they are basicaly removed from the battlefield) ..
generally useable experimental unitset ... pritti gud air and nice t1 gunshipoption ..

didn´t play aeon much but to me they are the second most intresting faction simply cause they have a row of hover and ranged units compared to the other factions, mercies are also a neat snipeunit (if fairly ballanced) .. msg on t2 is helpfull .. t3 sniperbot is nice as well i think even if it needs shieldcoverage ... fair experimental unitset ... .... i think blazes could be used as anti t1 option and vs hoplites/monguees...


UEF .... i guess it´s an OK faction ... i´m not realy a fan of how the pillar became a spamunit instead of being a t2 powerhouse, still find the percival too tough that should rather be about second row heavy firepower were maybe the titan should have been the t3 frontlineunit especialy with its shield similar to the Aeon harbinger ... generaly would rather have loved a t3 assaulttank with sidecannons ...

not a fan of how uef are both the only faction to lack a experimental airunit (like ripper, czar, t4 phimbomber(fook phimnames)) and their experimental subcarrier just replacing a regular carrier alltogether were aeon have a floating fortress that´s also a carrier besides their regular seavariant .... imo the subcarrier is also the least usefull experimental as it has nothing to attack coastlines with, it just feels like a glorified torpedocarrier bastard .... as for novax (which i guess sorta counts as the UEF´s "flying" experimental?) .... ehhhhh it just pales in coolness to any orbitalstrikeesque weapon like even tiberian dawn´s ioncannon, i guess it´s ok as a lategame trollweapon, the controlcenter maybe could get a bit more HP (like +5k?) ... fatboy is cool but i have to question why it has less overall health (even with shield) than the cheaper monkeylord? ... ok i get it, it´s a mobile artillery/battleshipstyle unit but that domeshild is a pretty big hitbox and in case of vs aeon sucseptible to absolvers ... not to forget ... powerloss may hurt it A LOT, like have 3 of them out and you suddenly get powersniped ... that´s 60k hp gone in a blink ...


phim ... .... well .... honestly i initialy wanted to play phim as my second faction instead of aeon ..... because (you may have guessed it) .. that experimental set ... ... but other than that they just don´t have realy anything intresting to them than just the most basic of units ... great they have a hovering t1 artillery .... what else? .... a msg you only get at t3 ... oh sure what they have in units may be stronger/tougher on avarage to other factions equivalent units but then they also lack a number of units .. no labs for no real reason, absolutely nothing intresting at t2 neither ground nor air, t2 naval they only have 2 units, no specialunit at all ... but hey their destroyer is submersible ... i guess that counts for something .... no specialty unit to see in t3 naval either but just a t3 subhunter were the other factions get it at t2 ...

and also yes to what @blodir said, they are the only faction to lack a t3 gunship .. that their t2 gunship has 200 hp more than other factions t2 gunships doesn´t make it a good unit to use at t3 at all, were they only then have the option to use bombers or rush a tx bomber .. it doesn´t even have stealth or radarjamming, and again nothing else special in the t3 air area, the t3 bomber doesn´t have anything outstanding to it that makes the lack of a t3 gunship viable or justifiable, neither the ASF ..
overall imho there is just nothing in the phim unitpool that truely makes them stand out ..
they are the faction that just looks weird to me and that is it ..




PS: i friggin hate this forum´s logtimer

[advena]

As I calculated, you are looking in wrong direction :robot:

HP*DPS/mass^2

UEF: 300*24/56^2 = 2.296
Cybran: 270*27/52^2 = 2.696
Phim: 280*25/54^2 = 2.400
Aeon out of comparison

Cybran T1 main tank is 17% better than UEF and 12% than phim in direct fight AND fastest one

[keyser]

As I calculated, you are looking in wrong direction :robot:

HP*DPS/mass^2

UEF: 300*24/56^2 = 2.296
Cybran: 270*27/52^2 = 2.696
Phim: 280*25/54^2 = 2.400
Aeon out of comparison

Cybran T1 main tank is 17% better than UEF and 12% than phim in direct fight AND fastest one

mantis isn't better in direct fight than other T1 tanks (even taken into account their low price).

[ThomasHiatt]

Last I tested the mantis beats other tanks pretty consistently. It is also faster so you will always be able to outmaneuver or have a numbers advantage, you can use it to finish buildings and assist things, and it is cheaper than all the other tanks. UEF or seraphim can always be out spammed and raided by Cybran on the t1 stage, and Cybran can defend more easily since the mantis moves faster and can finish things that were started even if the engy is killed. Cybran has a huge advantage in the t1 stage, which is by far the most important stage of the game. It is not only the mantis either, the medusa is very good, the jester is very good, the frigate is the best, all-around best everything on the t1 stage.

[PsychoBoB]

(...in 1v1 ofc)

Since...

...you.

several of this points are addressed in current beta

Sorry but i only see nerfs for Aeon (except for the Czar and the GC): https://github.com/FAForever/fa/blob/de ... angelog.md

[keyser]

(...in 1v1 ofc)

Since...

...you.

several of this points are addressed in current beta

Sorry but i only see nerfs for Aeon (except for the Czar): https://github.com/FAForever/fa/blob/de ... angelog.md

yes the spectre change is a very big nerf. :kappa: