3709 feedback thread

[ZLO_RD]

pls can someone post the replays were the snipe mod decide a game?

can you check this? https://replay.faforever.com/10455481
i think this is a classic example. little overextention and you are dead.
and most importantly need to remember that UNITS CAN'T MOVE AND FIRE AT ACU AT THE SAME TIME IF THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE IN THEIR RANGE
https://youtu.be/lpOzTyfzI1g?t=838

Edit: you can watch from player's perspective and will see messages when he enables and disables snipemode

i dont see imbaness here, he just went in with all and had luck, cause you didnt have E for OC, that was just a snipe with land units, man i lost games in 1v1 tournesy because ghettos and some shitty snipes and i never will say ban ghettos or ban whatever, im sure you can find a lot more of examples of ppl sniping with air that of ppl sniping with snipe mode.

i feel that like ppl just lose some games in tourneys go in rage and ban a part of the game for it, thats not a good way for make balance

i am not sure... You asked the right kind of question at 1rst. The question was "would outcome be different if there was no snipemode?" nothing about being fair, lucky or what should have happen or should not have happened. all that time when rhinos and mantis were moving they would not be able to shoot ACU, he never stopped to targetfire my ACU and my mantis always were around, similar thing with his ACU. If snipemode didn't exist, he would have to manually attack my acu for a second, otherwise his ACU would randomly shoot ACU or not shoot ACU, depends if 1rst thing he was shooting was acu or not (i think...)
simply OCing ACU manually might not switch target on ACU. at least from my experience.

[Armmagedon]

You can watch my first game vs Turin WWPC, it's posted there, I had more units, and it wasn't really a misspositioning, and I have reacted immidiatly when he moved his army.
On 5x5 maps you can't just hide your Acu even when you have decent advantaga, Acu will just farm your units for free. The whole idea of t1 land units + Acu fights micro is to have units behind your ACU and with snipe mode when you get to 50+ units enemy can just run in with shift g + snipe mode and you have 2 choices:
Do the same thing which often results in draw
Or try to defend and pray

i watched that replays in cobalt valley and after watch it i think snipe mod makes the game more interesting, he just went all in cause you were taking terrain and he had more units there, you could just snipe him too, to see all that units and coms "dancing" at least for me was nice to watch dunno why you want to remove that guys.

thats the rep id: #10646093
he killed you by ctrlK :/

[Isen]

You can watch my first game vs Turin WWPC, it's posted there, I had more units, and it wasn't really a misspositioning, and I have reacted immidiatly when he moved his army.
On 5x5 maps you can't just hide your Acu even when you have decent advantaga, Acu will just farm your units for free. The whole idea of t1 land units + Acu fights micro is to have units behind your ACU and with snipe mode when you get to 50+ units enemy can just run in with shift g + snipe mode and you have 2 choices:
Do the same thing which often results in draw
Or try to defend and pray

Watched that replay, you got drawn by snipemode but i think that actually if turin sent units without snipemode set on acu he would have killed all your units and then would have killed your acu, all the time their auroras were shooting at your acu it was acu tanking damage and units of yours not dying, and he had more auroras than you on the fight, around 65 auroras from turin against around 45 from you, although you got some aa and arties too.
he would have mostly likely get a win or a draw if setting acu priority wasnt posible. So nothing would have changed if this game was played with current patch.

[Tagada]

I will watch the replay again later but I don't think that what you are saying is true, if snipe mode wouldn't be avaible then we would both loose most of the army and let's say we would be left with my Acu vs his + auroras, while I had much more units coming, including t2 shields, and If i remember correctly I had double gun VS only his range so I would just crush his auroras in initial fight so no, I don't agree, if it wasn't for snipemode I don't think it was possible for him to draw me

[Farmsletje]

i just watched the replay, and if this is the best example of the imbalanceness of the snipe mod

What are you even talking about. That is one of the worst examples of snipe mod you could possibly find and you call it the best?

#10462144 is a decent example i remembered if you check the jagged vs pepsi fight at the bottom. At 11.15 min Jagged has 8k mass in land and pd's + a gun acu. Meanwhile pepsi has 6.5k mass in units and pd's and no gun acu. They BOTH are standing in front of their units in the exact same positionhttps://puu.sh/EQMjK/4c9344627c.png and the only difference is that jagged has 1.5k less hp (but still above 10k). What's important to note is that pepsi's acu didn't contribute in the fight: He left the scene on full hp, which means that not only did jagged have more units but he also had a 10k hp gun acu contributing to the fight.

Now what happens with snipemode? Pepsi goes all in with the incredible tactical move called shift g + snipemode. 10 sec later Jagged has lost 300 mass worth of army units and 6k hp on his acu, meanwhile pepsi lost 1900 mass worth of army units. Another 8 sec later jagged has a 6k vs 3k army value but only has 1k hp left on his acu and eventually he died. The only way for jagged to prevent this was to either not use his acu in the first place (which obviously is a no go) OR use this snipemode tactic himself but just 1 second earlier than his opponent did. This leads to snipemode being a must use in almost any scenario.

Now what would've happened if jagged wouldn't have died? Then he could easily kill pepsi with his surviving army since h e had no units left. The issue is that this means that snipemode is often an instant game ender. Either the player who gets snipemoded dies to the snipemode, but if he lives the one that instigated it dies cause he lost everything. However as you saw in this game snipemode works even with an inferior army, which means that taking the risk is being rewarded because it has a very high percentage of working.

Now ofcourse you can argue that jagged could've done the same thing to pepsi before it was done to him, but this would have led us to the exact same scenario as i described before but just with the snipemode having a higher chance of working, which means that in almost EVERY scenario it leads to a player dying simply because of the existance of snipemode.

An example of snipemode not working out resulting in the player that tries to setup for a shift g + snipemode is #10192243. Here you see pepsi trying to go for an all in acu snipe multiple times but retreating at the last second because he realised it wouldn't work. However this resulted in him losing more units each time and eventually let to him losing the game simply because he tried to use snipemode. So again, a normal game is ruined because people tried to go for snipemode because they know its super strong.

All in all the existance of snipemode on acu's leads to an increased amount of all in's which DO NOT require ANY skill to execute. You press 2 buttons at the right time and hope for the best.

Edit:Also as a small sidenote: Saying "YOu Just WAnT To NErF ThE tAcTic You GuYs Are LOSInG to" is just such an insanely dumb and pointless statement. Just stop it unless you do not want to be taken seriously.

[JaggedAppliance]

I will do a stream soon where all I will do is watch replays and we will look at snipe mode kills. Send me replays via forum pm, discord, yt or on faf. I'll collect as many as I can myself.

[ZLO_RD]

An example of snipemode not working out resulting in the player that tries to setup for a shift g + snipemode is #10192243. Here you see pepsi trying to go for an all in acu snipe multiple times but retreating at the last second because he realised it wouldn't work. However this resulted in him losing more units each time and eventually let to him losing the game simply because he tried to use snipemode. So again, a normal game is ruined because people tried to go for snipemode because they know its super strong.

well yea that is very poor execution of a snipe mode, he also didn't get enought units to be able to snipemode ACU. it looked like he was desperate, also it looked like game was lost for that guy even before 1rst shift+g + snipemode attempt. guy was powerstalling -200 for like 5 minutes... this game is not balanced enought to proove much about snipemode imho. we could only maybe see how much HP he took from your ACU with his 1rst attempt, not sure if it was many hp or not for that pathetic attempt. only reason why second attempt was even allowed was that you were ecoing and teching pretty agressively so you didn't have as much t1 spam.

[Isen]

i just watched the replay, and if this is the best example of the imbalanceness of the snipe mod

What are you even talking about. That is one of the worst examples of snipe mod you could possibly find and you call it the best?

#10462144 is a decent example i remembered if you check the jagged vs pepsi fight at the bottom. At 11.15 min Jagged has 8k mass in land and pd's + a gun acu. Meanwhile pepsi has 6.5k mass in units and pd's and no gun acu. They BOTH are standing in front of their units in the exact same positionhttps://puu.sh/EQMjK/4c9344627c.png and the only difference is that jagged has 1.5k less hp (but still above 10k). What's important to note is that pepsi's acu didn't contribute in the fight: He left the scene on full hp, which means that not only did jagged have more units but he also had a 10k hp gun acu contributing to the fight.

Now what happens with snipemode? Pepsi goes all in with the incredible tactical move called shift g + snipemode. 10 sec later Jagged has lost 300 mass worth of army units and 6k hp on his acu, meanwhile pepsi lost 1900 mass worth of army units. Another 8 sec later jagged has a 6k vs 3k army value but only has 1k hp left on his acu and eventually he died. The only way for jagged to prevent this was to either not use his acu in the first place (which obviously is a no go) OR use this snipemode tactic himself but just 1 second earlier than his opponent did. This leads to snipemode being a must use in almost any scenario.

Now what would've happened if jagged wouldn't have died? Then he could easily kill pepsi with his surviving army since h e had no units left. The issue is that this means that snipemode is often an instant game ender. Either the player who gets snipemoded dies to the snipemode, but if he lives the one that instigated it dies cause he lost everything. However as you saw in this game snipemode works even with an inferior army, which means that taking the risk is being rewarded because it has a very high percentage of working.

Now ofcourse you can argue that jagged could've done the same thing to pepsi before it was done to him, but this would have led us to the exact same scenario as i described before but just with the snipemode having a higher chance of working, which means that in almost EVERY scenario it leads to a player dying simply because of the existance of snipemode.

An example of snipemode not working out resulting in the player that tries to setup for a shift g + snipemode is #10192243. Here you see pepsi trying to go for an all in acu snipe multiple times but retreating at the last second because he realised it wouldn't work. However this resulted in him losing more units each time and eventually let to him losing the game simply because he tried to use snipemode. So again, a normal game is ruined because people tried to go for snipemode because they know its super strong.

All in all the existance of snipemode on acu's leads to an increased amount of all in's which DO NOT require ANY skill to execute. You press 2 buttons at the right time and hope for the best.

Edit:Also as a small sidenote: Saying "YOu Just WAnT To NErF ThE tAcTic You GuYs Are LOSInG to" is just such an insanely dumb and pointless statement. Just stop it unless you do not want to be taken seriously.

Hey Farms just watched the first replay several times, i calculated the damage jagged took from t2 pds, since he started taking damage until he died he took 7.8k damage aproximely (should count also the acu regen), Also Espi pd were shooting meanwhile jagged t2 pds had no units in range so it is not the exact same position, espi was in the defensive(winning) position since jagged was pushing, 7.8k damage is equal to around 26 strikers hp, i think this certain game just shows a bad decision, and he just forced espi to send units all in, since it was the only option left, other way acu would have kept tanking pds and units would end up fucking pds and army.

On second replay, espi also likes trying jester snipes, corsairs snipes and sometimes they end up being a faillure what is the diference between those air snipes attemps and the all in land snipes? and also what is the definition of a normal game?. I dont think balance changes should be made to prevent people for trying certain strategies. If someone starts doing just t1 ghetto snipes and ruinning "normal games" because he wants to try it, shall we remove the ghetto snipe posibility?

[Isen]

I will watch the replay again later but I don't think that what you are saying is true, if snipe mode wouldn't be avaible then we would both loose most of the army and let's say we would be left with my Acu vs his + auroras, while I had much more units coming, including t2 shields, and If i remember correctly I had double gun VS only his range so I would just crush his auroras in initial fight so no, I don't agree, if it wasn't for snipemode I don't think it was possible for him to draw me

check replay again and let me know maybe im wrong, anyway i guess it would be posible to recreate same scenario and to check what would have been the outcome if he just moved units in without prioritizing the acu

[Isen]

I will do a stream soon where all I will do is watch replays and we will look at snipe mode kills. Send me replays via forum pm, discord, yt or on faf. I'll collect as many as I can myself.

I think something more interesting would be to check last 50 ladder games of 1800+ rating and to check in how many the snipe mode made a big impact, maybe it is something interesting to do, just a suggestion.
Or to check all lots qualification games and check the amount of games decided by that, dunno maybe it would bring some light to the thread xD