3709 feedback thread

[Armmagedon]

pls can someone post the replays were the snipe mod decide a game?

[Ithilis_Quo]

I watch the video and Im sorry but Jagged your argumentation is wrong in many points.

Shif g is counterplay on shift g? that is not true at all, while when you shift g your units pack and block enemy acu you can target acu to attack him, while your units stay on place and not lose target order by move orders, so there is no huge differences. And i will reveal counter on the situation that our balanceLord describe as "there is no any counterplay on this tactic" USE OVERCHARGE, yeah mighty tool, that smashes all shift g units by onece super easily and dump own hp by insta heal magic.

Because let units do what player wants them to do is describe by the author as "There is n-ooooo... i mean the... decision.... making is not exactly deep...... interesting, fun to watch, its only actually for wining, not to play well."

Well...
will remember that when will see someone make eco

[ZLO_RD]

pls can someone post the replays were the snipe mod decide a game?

Screenshot_539.png (12.71 KiB) Viewed 951 times

members of balance team and thier friends were brutalized by dumb tactic of mantis spam + shift+g + snipe mode on the 1rst qualifyer. They don't want that to repeat on finals (700$ for 1rst place) so they make a new balance patch quickly
https://challonge.com/ru/9q2tl94t
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=18337&p=179285#p179285

also in that tournament nexus snipemoded me on abhor and we got a draw, otherwise i would win and we had to play second game that i lost, so yea i lost AT LEAST 10$ cause of snipemode in that tournament.

i sniped few players in clanwar, that also brought me and my team some $$$Cash$$$, but maybe that could have been done without snipemode, need to review every replay separately

Edit: many 1v1 games on land maps get decided by snipemode imho. can't show exact excamples right now, but can do later if you really want to.

[Isen]

The reason behind the snipemode edit is simple. Since its introduction the average quality of 1v1 games have diminished by a lot and most top 1v1 players can confirm this. Even with a 2 to 1 tank advantage the player with 2 times as many tanks could still lose simply because a shift g + snipemode combination. This led to 1v1 games being plagued with snipemode all in's in either the t1 or t2 stage. If it works the game ends, if it fails the game often also ends because the player that tried the all in failed and has nothing left. Now you may disagree with this, but i and many others would call this gameplay extremely uninteresting and boring. It also felt like snipemode allin's were a braindead tactic: Just shift g and click snipemode and hope you're lucky enough to get a free acu kill.

The "Just don't play risky if you don't want to get snipemoded" argument means that an acu is almost impossible to use because it's incredible easy to pull of a snipemode kill. Playing it safe would mean that in the average 1v1 game the amount of rambo acu's would be diminished by an insane amount and again this would lead to the gameplay becoming a lot more stale.

Snipemode has added better targetting priorities for every single unit and target. The loss of a tiny speck of that efficiency by removing snipemode on acu's in return for an expected better and more enjoyable gameplay is what the balance team decided on.

man, if the enemy can use snipe mode you can too, is just another tactic and something not imba or something, if you can make units do what you want they should, this is just make the game dumber cause some ppl just complain about something that they dont want to learn to use, that not snipe mode just make t2 super shit, vs coms they just OC everyhing while you have spam around and your t2 units just die

who is confirming that 1v1 games quality is worst with snipe mode? i dont believe that
i want arguments and that someone said that is better isnt one

Who is confirming: literally anyone that streamed the first LotS qualifier or was in the LotS channel at the time. I didn’t hear a single dude say “you know what is super cool about these pepsi games? How I have no choice but to spam pure units and hope my spam kills his ACU before his spam kills mine!”

If I give every faction a 1 mass unit that has 5000k hp and 5000 dps at tech 1, would that be imbal or is it perfectly fine because every faction can make it? It’s called a clearly dominant strategy and when everyone is forced to use it, regardless of whether everyone has access to it, it is considered imbal.

Ftx just watched quickly all espi games on Lots qualifier and i can say SnipeMode nerf wouldnt change the outcome on any of the games, here are the replay ids so anyone can check:
Group of 16 #2: Mephi vs Espi
#10454681 (Abhor) On this game mephi got caught completely alone, he go surrounded by mantis, even without snipe mode he could just manually target acu after surrounded.
#10454802 (Forbidden Pass) This one air snipe

Group of 8 #1: Petric vs Espi
#10455355 (hollow) On this one he shift-g with mantis in snipe mode ACU, yeah but btw if you have a quick check on units amount,at min 12:02 espi had near petric acu 75 mantis and 114 in total mantis amount while petric had near his acu 42 mantis and a total amount of mantis in the map of 67. Also espi had the air 4 jesters and 5 bombers, petric had 2 jesters. Espi kill ratio is at that certain moment 1.45 while petric is 0.69. Also the shift g move is trash since he stream mantis in a line, i think if he just used formation and go with acu he would have just killed all the mantis and acu without needing to do that.
#10455115 (Seton)
#10455026 (Frithen) Jester snipe

Quarterfinal #1: Espi vs Turin
#10456428 (Abhor) Normal game no sniped acu
#10456575 (Bermuda)
#10456759 (Forbidden Pass) Acu blocked with mantis and killed, snipemode change wouldnt change outcome for same reason as in ahbor game vs mephi
#10456846 (Seton) Turin die by mistake acu placement,

Final: Espi vs Nexus
#10457030 (Abhor)
#10457153 (Forbidden Pass)
#10457267 (Seton)

So for me the argument of “you know what is super cool about these pepsi games? How I have no choice but to spam pure units and hope my spam kills his ACU before his spam kills mine!” is not a valid one, most of the game he managed to snipe by winning air and air snipes, and the hollow game he was clearly ahead that is the only one in which happened something that you could blame on snipe mode and as i already said it would have been won by espi in any other way.

[ZLO_RD]

i have casted almost whole second qualifyer, there were very little snipes and land clutches with snipe mode used.
https://youtu.be/Jhg6jalomMs?t=13830 here you can see how Tagada's units shoot ACU instead of percies and t2 flack.
because without snipemode they would literally spend their time to turn their guns and would shoot at percies and t2 flack because they are higher priority, and if you would prioritise ACU manually by right click whole army would stop and bunch up and they would have to turn their guns again.... maybe petric could have survived there with 3 percy + some t2 flack HP buffer and some more overcharges and reinforcements.

i only found this one example out of 32 games that i have casted on second qualifyer... but many maps were naval or where ACUs don't meet, while 1rst qualifyer had some insane land spam maps for sure
i know it is a bad example of "without snipe mod it would have been different"... so idk why i am even posting this right now
but you can see there units shooting acu instead of percies

[Armmagedon]

i have casted almost whole second qualifyer, there were very little snipes and land clutches with snipe mode used.
https://youtu.be/Jhg6jalomMs?t=13830 here you can see how Tagada's units shoot ACU instead of percies and t2 flack.
because without snipemode they would literally spend their time to turn their guns and would shoot at percies and t2 flack because they are higher priority, and if you would prioritise ACU manually by right click whole army would stop and bunch up and they would have to turn their guns again.... maybe petric could have survived there with 3 percy + some t2 flack HP buffer and some more overcharges and reinforcements.

i only found this one example out of 32 games that i have casted on second qualifyer... but many maps were naval or where ACUs don't meet, while 1rst qualifyer had some insane land spam maps for sure
i know it is a bad example of "without snipe mod it would have been different"... so idk why i am even posting this right now
but you can see there units shooting acu instead of percies

i just watched the replay, and if this is the best example of the imbalanceness of the snipe mod im even more convinced that we should keep it
as a resume in that game tagada was winning clearly and in thaat battle he had an army with x2 cost of fremy army plus fremy army was just composed by percies so easy to kill for com with OC if that game didnt have snipemod the outcome would be exactly the same.

please guys just put me a game where clearly the snipe mod decide a game or restore it pls

P.D i watched the replay that my bro said and i think the same than him about them

[ZLO_RD]

pls can someone post the replays were the snipe mod decide a game?

can you check this? https://replay.faforever.com/10455481
i think this is a classic example. little overextention and you are dead.
and most importantly need to remember that UNITS CAN'T MOVE AND FIRE AT ACU AT THE SAME TIME IF THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE IN THEIR RANGE
https://youtu.be/lpOzTyfzI1g?t=838

Edit: you can watch from player's perspective and will see messages when he enables and disables snipemode

[Endranii]

Ok just a quick question. Can this shit be disabled so units will still behave like before? That is shoot the closest thing possible, and upon issuing attack+move they will keep on shooting the target specified before move order?

[Tagada]

You can watch my first game vs Turin WWPC, it's posted there, I had more units, and it wasn't really a misspositioning, and I have reacted immidiatly when he moved his army.
On 5x5 maps you can't just hide your Acu even when you have decent advantaga, Acu will just farm your units for free. The whole idea of t1 land units + Acu fights micro is to have units behind your ACU and with snipe mode when you get to 50+ units enemy can just run in with shift g + snipe mode and you have 2 choices:
Do the same thing which often results in draw
Or try to defend and pray

[Armmagedon]

pls can someone post the replays were the snipe mod decide a game?

can you check this? https://replay.faforever.com/10455481
i think this is a classic example. little overextention and you are dead.
and most importantly need to remember that UNITS CAN'T MOVE AND FIRE AT ACU AT THE SAME TIME IF THERE IS SOMETHING ELSE IN THEIR RANGE
https://youtu.be/lpOzTyfzI1g?t=838

Edit: you can watch from player's perspective and will see messages when he enables and disables snipemode

i dont see imbaness here, he just went in with all and had luck, cause you didnt have E for OC, that was just a snipe with land units, man i lost games in 1v1 tournesy because ghettos and some shitty snipes and i never will say ban ghettos or ban whatever, im sure you can find a lot more of examples of ppl sniping with air that of ppl sniping with snipe mode.

i feel that like ppl just lose some games in tourneys go in rage and ban a part of the game for it, thats not a good way for make balance