Patch 3704 Release Thread

[Farmsletje]

There you have it aeon players. with infinite micro your frigs WILL beat up any other factions frigs, so stop complaining about balance already

[Little Miss Murder]

Good luck balancing the infinite micro mechanic...

[UnorthodoxBox]

Ahem. You said it.. Destros are meant to outrange frigates. But you're complaining that we ought to focus on frigate vs frigate because that's "balance"?

Can you please not put words in my mouth? I explicitly stated “For example, let’s take a look at aeon frigates” Not ONCE did I say that my argument is about frigate balance. The frigates were a method to convey why you are wrong, not me randomly calling for them to be balanced. Also the point of my previous post seems to have gone completely over your head, so I will summarize. Almost all naval units are completely identical in their roles to their opposite faction counter-parts (except for units that rely on torpedoes/battlecruiser) so they can, and should, be compared directly, in order to understand balance.

[Little Miss Murder]

What? Dude...

[UnorthodoxBox]

Fascinating point!

[Little Miss Murder]

I'd rate it a success then. It was less effort than quoting you chapter and verse

Anyway, enough of this foolishness. See ya on the waters.

[Ze Dogfather]

If we can have the responses in the thread have a little more than some pointless banter, we can save space and offer something relevant for everyone here to read through, thanks

Frankly I'm not understanding your point Miss Murder (is that what I should be calling you?), if in terms of balance you're trying to bring realism to what dictates tactics and strategy in a video game? You can do some nifty stuff with your unit positioning and formation, all that good jazz, but it'd be hard to take you serious if trying to say all this about "true oceanic warfare" when considering how drastically different and unreliable this game is to actual strategy. I don't mean to crush expectations and immersion, but you do have to take a step back to realize why balance runs the way that it runs here Unfortunately naval combat does not run ideally run in games as we would like to.

[Thomy100]

Fellas if you think Jagged or anyone in the balance team is going to listen to at best ancedotal / at worst comical opinions from average level players with no replays to support them after the YEARS of lich/hawkei/mayasaka/rooster balance cancer, you would indeed be delusional.

If you claim that UEF T2 navy is so much as an autowin againt seraphim T2 (when I thought it was almost the opposite..), you're going to need to bring proof to the table.

Well I dont claim to be the most experienced or skilled player, yes i am average around 1100 right now but I played a lot of games recently (I enjoy Team games). I don't see anything wrong with sharing my opinion about balance on the balance forum especially since i can compare it well how it used to be a few years ago (yeah, didnt play for a long time).

What I notice is, and I think it can be statistically proven, that Sera is played significantly less nowadays. Sera used to be THE faction to go for sea maps, so at least there they were strong. Now they suck at sea and have almost no real place in a teamgames anymore.

- T2 navy in late stage is weak due to the naval mix of the other factions.
- T3 sub hunters are super expensive and lose to mass t2 subs, T2 torp bombers, Harms creep, Tempest etc. Even if you micro your hearth out, It doesn't cut it.

So no point in taking Sera for sea anymore, all the other factions have more/better options or have simply stronger units

Game enders:
I played a game recently as Cybran, which I normally never do, and went for a scathis. It was ridiculously easy. You can start with a mass eco of less than 300 and build it under sea (almost no way to prevent it). Whilie you are building you can keep building up your economy with RAS ACU's (something that Sera also doesn't have) and increase the power build gradually since it also need much less Energy than let's say a Marvor or yolona oss. Needless to say that we won easily.

Compare this to Sera: The yolona oss needs so dammn much energy that you need a shit load of t3 Reactors and you need to shield it since it can't be built under the sea. Also it's huge and can be sniped easily. Powerbuilding is more expensive due to the energy cost and building up your economy on the way is more difficult because, no RAS ACU.

I am not a big fan of Game enders so I am very okay with them being very expensive and difficult to get. But if the Scathis is now this cheap, can be build totally protected, is small and mobile, than it HAS to come with a much greater cost than it does now. THIS is clearly not balanced.

So, if I had a magical wand I would buff Sera navy back to the way it used to be so it becomes a valid option to pick again and either nerf scathis or make it (much) more expensive.

[Ze Dogfather]

What I notice is, and I think it can be statistically proven, that Sera is played significantly less nowadays. Sera used to be THE faction to go for sea maps, so at least there they were strong. Now they suck at sea and have almost no real place in a teamgames anymore.

Seraphim hasn't always been a super popular faction, but I don't know of any big changes in their navy that all the sudden they suck that bad. At t2 stage, UEF has always had the weakest navy simply due to the destroyer being unreliable, which is why the depend on making the transition to t3 as soon as possible. Seraphim destroyers on the other hand are much better, though may not totally stand up to Aeon or Cybran destros (still not that bad to fight), and their cruisers are great. T3 subs could use a little more loving, but I haven't had much a chance to mess with their improved vision, so they don't get beaned on by cybran t2 subs as badly.

There are options the seraphim navy have that as far as I know, while not super dependable, don't seem as terrible as you might make them out to be. They do have competent enough navy with the potential to utilize t3 mobile shields, and least we forget, they can always depend on zthuees being a substantial supporting unit in some circumstances.

[UnorthodoxBox]

suck at sea and have almost no real place in a teamgames anymore

Yikes. Seraphim is probably the second easiest teamgame faction to play because they have a lot of safe and reliable options. I do not know why you still think they are bad at navy. Maybe you just do not know how to play Seraphim?

T2 navy in late stage is weak due to the naval mix of the other factions

So no point in taking Sera for sea anymore, all the other factions have more/better options or have simply stronger units

Just because UEF gets shield boats does not make seraphim weak. Is cybran weak because they dont have shields with their hoplites? No. Seraphim WILL beat ALL other destroyers 1v1 if microed AT ALL. You can even beat 6 enemy destroyers with 4 Seraphim ones. If you cannot do that, it is a fault with you, not the faction.