Patch 3703 Beta

[keyser]

allowing engie station for sera and aeon is being studied. Although we don't really like to introduce new units.

[Morax]

I do have to admit, I like playing cybran the most in late game as a few engineering stations, fully upgraded, can reduce base management by a ton.

Also, you don't have to worry about engineers scrambling around to get right next to a building; the stations instantly start assisting when you assign them to a factory...

As for Aeon receiving a engineering station: I don't like it. They already have the best base breaker with the t3, mobile disruptor, so if you can spam snipers with stations it will get ugly, real fast.

For sera, I simply do not understand how they lack a RAS SACU and stations; plus, they have the worst land, t3 attack unit.

[Korbah]

Good post Morax

Late game sera is a real problemas they have fewer units. They're often inferior (othuum, t4 chicken) or if superior not impactful enough (sniper, t3 shield). Add in no ras scu and no engi stations and sera struggle in both 1v1 and team games vs the better range of options other races have.

I did a tweak mod for t3 sera a while ago. Othuum got tweaks to make it a true seige tank with aoe on it's main cannon (no dps buff just small aoe to make them better vs bases and clumped units - no advantage vs other t3's 1on1). Visual tweaks and indirect fire on the main cannon made the unit much more interesting to use and helped make t3 sera less vanilla.

Sniper got hover to help bolster the lack of navy units. Again doesn't add much but a bit more depth which seraphim lacks in t3.

I agree that adding new units willy-nilly is ill advised. I can promise you that a lot can be done with the current units to make them far more interesting without blatant buffing.

[Apofenas]

If only t2/t3 engineers had higher range so you could manage your build power way easier in smaller space...

T2 5->7.5
T3 5->10

This would let you use your higher tech engineers to start buildings further away so they would avoid being swarmed with army of t1 engineers.

10 range for t3 engineers would also make them better for assisting structures in bases. Not as good as fully upgraded hives, but you trade mobility and efficiency for that as an alternative for engy stations.


As for RAS SCUs. I never understood why sera don't have ones. This is late game economic option that sera don't have and that silly +2m +200e basic income is just a joke. IMO that is completely unfair disadvantage for late game stages.

[keyser]

As for Aeon receiving a engineering station: I don't like it. They already have the best base breaker with the t3, mobile disruptor, so if you can spam snipers with stations it will get ugly, real fast.

having engie station has nothing to do with spamming disruptor and sniper. (wtf ?)

The goal of giving engie stations would be to give a way to player to scale up their BP rapidly, for highly important BT units like exp, T3 arty, nuke and gameender.

For sera, I simply do not understand how they lack a RAS SACU and stations; plus, they have the worst land, t3 attack unit.

The RAS SCU will get nerf on their BT next balance patch. This will make T3 Pgen + T2/T3 mass fabricators a more viable option.

Late game sera is a real problemas they have fewer units. They're often inferior (othuum, t4 chicken) or if superior not impactful enough (sniper, t3 shield). Add in no ras scu and no engi stations and sera struggle in both 1v1 and team games vs the better range of options other races have.
I did a tweak mod for t3 sera a while ago. Othuum got tweaks to make it a true seige tank with aoe on it's main cannon (no dps buff just small aoe to make them better vs bases and clumped units - no advantage vs other t3's 1on1). Visual tweaks and indirect fire on the main cannon made the unit much more interesting to use and helped make t3 sera less vanilla.

The T3 sera land is way better than it used to be, i didn't have enough occurrence to rate it accurately, but i would put it in 2nd spot after cybran. The small aoe buff on othuums can be nice for them to deal with T1 pd.

Sniper got hover to help bolster the lack of navy units. Again doesn't add much but a bit more depth which seraphim lacks in t3.

sera doesn't really lack navy unit. They haven't T2 subs, T3 nuke sub or naval experiment. The use of the nuke sub is covered by the bs, while T3 subs make up for the lack of T2 subs/exp. Snipers would serve no purpose there.

T2 5->7.5
T3 5->10

T3 engie already got their speed nerf reverted in actual beta, 1 step at a time.

[UnorthodoxBox]

In the original balance, UEF and cybran t3 engies had less buildpower than aeon and seraphim to make up for the two latter not having engineer stations. Obviously that is not a good way to balance, but perhaps editing the t3 engies could be a solution?

[Morax]

Keyser, it's more a concern with how strong Aeon is at t3 land phase - even with t3 tech accessibility nerf - that concerns me. I think it's rather formidable trying to counter snipers, t3 mobile arty, shields:

I feel like every team game I play against Aeon it boils down to 1) get something to control Aurora and double gun comm
2) prepare t2 station arty to keep sniper bots at bay
3) watch a disruptor take out t2 arty shields while their t3 mobile arty fires WHILE moving (just an absurd trait), sniper bots take out t2 arty in 1-2 shot cycles
4) become depressed

I feel Aeon sniper bots became the "why build anything else as aeon" unit and the thought of engineering stations enabling those things to spam out, at a higher rate, is horrifying....

Sera sniper bots are fairly annoying, too, but their shield is quite expensive, along with their t3 mobile arty being unable to dodge t2 arty shots, makes them far less threatening.

Sure, the engineering station is, as you say, a late game bt reducer, but just as you are admitting issues with current patch, I think this feat of Aeon is getting too imba.

If Aeon gets an engineering station I think t3 mobile arty, snipers, and/or a combo of some other nerf should be considered.

[Endranii]

Sorry but there is no place for eng stations in aeon. Not when they still have para.

[Steel_Panther]

Overall I like most of the changes. I still dislike the nuke assist nerf but i can understand why it was a big pain on some maps vs cybran with mass hives. Regarding the build power issue, the only real reason cybran hives are nice is because pathfinding is so utter garbage in this game. It is very very good for the higher tier engies to have faster speed now, but is there any way we can at least reduce the cancer of engies getting stuck on things and being horribly slow to move around? I recall discussion from long ago that something that could help might be faster acceleration. Is there any real downside to that? Or, maybe a buff to higher tier engineer efficiency would be acceptable. It doesn't seem right for t1 to be just as efficient as t3 either. People often just spam t1 basically at all stages if they want bp fast, and t1 engies are also less vulnerable to strat bombers (not janus though...), which matters a bit in late game since t1 bombers are often hard to sneak through. Killing ten clumped t3 engies with a cybran strat is not a bad pickup (if there are no better targets!), but not 20 t1 engies. So I don't know if a slight speed increase for t3 engies is going to make them used much more when they still suffer from horrible pathfinding problems.

[keyser]

in some way T3 engie suffer from path finding because you are spamming so much T1. Tbh people spam T1 engie for the reclaim, and then case use them as BP for later in the game, but going for more T2/T3 engie in comparison to T1 allows you to be more efficient by having less pathfinding issues.