We need to talk about the Scathis.

[moses_the_red]

Please give 1 example of a t3 arty destroying a t3 land army

Is your argument that they're so good that you don't even bother targeting land armies with them?

His argument is that noone does that for obvious reason - It doesn't work!!! The arty is not accurate enough to consistantly hit moving units.
If you fail to understand it then you are a lost cause.

Oh you're the same guy I just replied to. I was coming here to tell you to try it. Spin up a test game on a map of your choosing and see if it works.

It absolutely does work.

The reason that people don't generally do it has everything to do with there being better targets and nothing to do with it not being possible.

[Farmsletje]

Do you not understand that if you can't give us atleast 1 replay where good players use it then it isn't an issue?

[moses_the_red]

First of all it's because the scathis will most likely end up as a game ender because they currently don't have one.

Secondly balancing the scathis so that it's worth building it with navy dominance instead of just making battleships while still having it balanced for land maps vs armies, t2 arty and fatboys is almost impossible.

Tactical land scathis is super sexy but a game ender would fix it just as well. Whatever they do they will get flak (not from me, I'm just incredibly happy to hear its being changed from the anti-unit it is now), that's the nature of the job.

Its easy to ask for an omni-stealth high-range semi-fatboy with EMP and an espresso maker when you're not the person in charge of balancing it =P

[moses_the_red]

Do you not understand that if you can't give us atleast 1 replay where good players use it then it isn't an issue?

Fair enough, if and when I find such a replay I'll post it. This isn't really my fight though, I wanted the scathis changed because I wasted some time trying to make it work without realizing it was intentionally under-powered. I think a T3 artillery change would be great for the game, but I'm not going to scour the replay vault forever looking for a game that proves it. Mostly I got involved here because the guy that mentioned it was getting dog-piled with bad arguments. He's absolutely right, and I'm surprised he's not getting more support, but its not my fight.

If and when I find a replay that I think makes a good argument that the T3 arty is OP, I'll post it. May take a while but I don't imagine anyone's in a rush.

[Spy_Emanciator]

OK scathis in a nutshell:

Scathes right now is mostly just a waste of mass because minimal shielding is accomplishing a full deny of any effect. If the player is foolish enough to not shield certain areas then maybe you get some effect, or if your peppering a battlefield it might work some, but the randomness is so high that even that is unlikely.

Bottom line is right now its posing as a game ender when its just a soft shield pressure over a large area. DPS means nothing if you can't aim the thing. IMO the old scathes was better as you had to get it close enough to the target that counter attack from bombers, t3/experimental, or BS fire was a real threat. Now its just taking mass out of the pool that could have gone to t3 arty or mavor/salvations.

I say roll back the entire change to it so we have that forward pressure turtle position advantage and the edgy protection game that went into preserving it.

[armacham01]

Can you share some examples of recent replays where "minimal shielding" accomplished a "full deny of an effect" to a scathis?

[Spy_Emanciator]

I don't have a vault link handy but on dual gap theres tons of examples. Even on a map like that where a big group target is present, most people easily counter it. Your basically just shooting it until the RNG puts a few shots in the same place making it way more gambling like than other game enders. T3 arty has the same issue, but at least you can focus the same patch of shields with 90% of shots.

Basically your getting scathes effective when used in groups of 2-4 or just as extra pressure on top of a T3/t4 arty target, but you've put in a silly weapon instead of the previously balanced and effective forward pressure that the scathis was. What do we have now to reward forward creep turtling? Its already hard enough to manage this feat and get an SMD loaded, hold against bombers, and parry counter-attack. And now your limited to tac missile or building up conventional attacks there at stages of the game where thats not realistic.

Scathes should just roll back all together.

[FtXCommando]

Scathis is fine. Game isn’t balanced around dual gap. Stop playing maps where all your mexes can be covered by 1 t3 shield.

[Spy_Emanciator]

ok assume you want to kill a single unshielded mex? how long on average does it take the rng to allow a shot to hit where you aim? Hint its a long time... its a craps shoot. If shielded its an even longer time for rehits on the same spot.

Only thing its good for is taking out clumps of unshielded production and it removed the old role which was drastically more skillful.

[speed2]

One thing I absolutely hate about the new Scathis is how fast the turrets turn right now. Its very unrealistic for such a massive thing to accelerate and decelerate to fast.

Spoiler: show

Now you can stone me how this is a scifi game and not a real world.