Aeon Frig is TERRIBLE !!!!!

[Yolo-]

Hi,
please buff the aeon frig. I hate it. Here is a comparision to the (best) Cybran Frig:
Aeon costs 290 mass, has 60 dps, low rate of fire, NO AA and only 1850 hp (the least amount out of any frig)
Cybran costs 250 mass, has 60dps, amazing rate of fire, AMAZING AA and 1900 hp

I know Cybran frig is the best frig, but Aeon is clearly garbage. For example take a late game navy fight, aeon vs cybran:
Both players make frigs worth of 20k mass: 80 cybran frigs with amazing AA that can defend themself very well against torps vs 69 aeon frigs that have 0 AA and are absolutely garbage. Not only would cybran win because of number advantage, while they have the SAME hp, Cybran also has perfect aa defence.
You have to pay 16% (!!!) more mass for aeon frig than for cybran

Aeon frigs 3 more range (31 vs the other frigs 28) is in navy fights pretty much useless, they might shoot a bit earlier, but its pointless with garbage rate of fire anyway.

The torp def isn't an argument either, just not worth mentioning.

I just don't see a reason to play aeon navy, when you have the opportunity to switch to amazing cybran navy.

Aeon frig clearly needs a buff

P.S.: Don't even think about arguing over navy composition bla bla bla.

[Apofenas]

Balance
I had a chat about it with Jagged not so long ago.

Its main problem is torp defence and its place in the game. Does anyone even know such thing even exists? It is broken and useless stat wise.

1) Currently this torp defence is incapable to catch a torpedo in most situations. Sometimes it is shot in other side from torpedo; Sometimes projectile dies before it kills torpedo; It is so fcking slow to protect nearest ships a bit behind Beacon. All of that means this unit can't even protect itself from torpedoes, not to mention other ships nearby (same problem exists for Exodus, but who'd bother to fix it?)

Got to mention it is much better in EQ, but some problems remain. !summon Exotic_Retard
Now as I told that we can expect another patch this weekend, right?

2) Let's assume this torp defence works perfectly and can catch torpedo in 100% situations. Single projectile every 12 seconds. For t1 sub it means 5/6 torpedoes will hit target. For Vesper 11/12, Barracuda 17/18, Uashavoh 9/12, Yathsou 11/12.And this was meant as an advantage for not having AA. Other units with this type of torp defence have 0.2-0.3 fire rate(3-5 seconds reload) and that is enough to catch torpedo per fire circle of most torp weapons(commonly 4 sec reload).

My suggestion is to take a look at Uashavoh or Vesper torp defence and copy how it works. Make it hit torpedo, make it fast enough to protect nearest units and make it shoot with 4 sec reload. That would be a good advantage for not having AA. At least enemy would have huge problems killing something with torps behind wall of Beacons. Take away that 3 range advantage from its cannons and reduce its cost to 250-260.

As for AA... that is whole different story called Shard...

Model
Did anyone even see a model of this unit when it is firing? Somebody in GPG clearly wasn't paid enough. When it fires, front cannon is being pushed back as it should, take a close look at rear cannon... the whole tower moves back...wut?

[Hildegard]

Hello Yolo-

What would you propose to change? I had a silly idea, probably impossible to implement as I considered only Setons. But let us play along for a while:

Could torpedo defense be switched out to something more useful? It cannot (or should not - I think) be AA considering the Shard exists. Inverting the torpedo defense into a really small depth charge to give Aeon frigate some additional undodgeable DPS at close range could be interesting (low rate, high alpha strike). Though I fear this is impossible to implement anywhere outside of Setons due to t1 subs potentially being useful elsewhere. However this could justify the low HP and high cost.

Another alternative would be to simply rework the torpedo defense as Apofenas above suggested, and in addition to that reduce the mass cost to similar level with Cybran frigate, and to perhaps accelerate the ROF by a small percentage. I'm not sure in which situations this additional torpedo defense would be useful, seeing as you will have Exodus' anyway in your fleet (which means you should often not be facing subs in the first place).

Summa summarum:
Either "sell" the "value" you are supposed to gain by the torpedo defense utility for a cheaper price, or convert it into other weapons or enhancing the deck cannons?

[Apofenas]

Could torpedo defense be switched out to something more useful? It cannot (or should not - I think) be AA considering the Shard exists. Inverting the torpedo defense into a really small depth charge to give Aeon frigate some additional undodgeable DPS at close range could be interesting (low rate, high alpha strike). Though I fear this is impossible to implement anywhere outside of Setons due to t1 subs potentially being useful elsewhere. However this could justify the low HP and high cost.

That is impossible. I'll just name you example: Wagner. With current stats Wagner could have 10 DPS to somewhat effectively fight subs. Yet it would still be useless against everything stronger (and that is literally everything). So since that doesn't matter anyway FAF threw shit on Wagner and kept meme weapon so veteran ACU could regen a little slower. In EQ t1 subs were made much stronger and Wagner took a couple nerfs and tweaks to get 20 DPS torps.

Beacon is way more efficient than Wagner (hp, speed, vision, radar, ect) and most important mustn't be able to fight back subs. That means the only torpedo you can put on it is some meme 1-2 DPS. Something like that already exists for Galaxy and Neptune. I doubt in utility of this.

[Hildegard]

That is impossible. I'll just name you example: Wagner. With current stats Wagner could have 10 DPS to somewhat effectively fight subs. Yet it would still be useless against everything stronger (and that is literally everything). So since that doesn't matter anyway FAF threw shit on Wagner and kept meme weapon so veteran ACU could regen a little slower. In EQ t1 subs were made much stronger and Wagner took a couple nerfs and tweaks to get 20 DPS torps.

Beacon is way more efficient than Wagner (hp, speed, vision, radar, ect) and most important mustn't be able to fight back subs. That means the only torpedo you can put on it is some meme 1-2 DPS. Something like that already exists for Galaxy and Neptune. I doubt in utility of this.

I'm aware. I said that this is impossible since we have to take into account the rest of the game. However t1 sub in itself is nothing but a meme on Seton's, where most (if not all) of the serious late game naval combat in this game takes place. Galaxy I believe has 10 dps in it's torpedoes, which is virtually pointless for a 8k mass unit. For frigates however, massed in considerable amounts, 5-10 additional dps (even partially applied due to inconvenient range) from each would have an impact.

[Yolo-]

Hi,
first of all, I forgot to mention another terrible thing about the garbage aeon frig: It has the highest buildtime
Right now T1 aeon navy is just ridiculously expensive in both time and mass.

Thinking about changing the torp def is missing the point. It just doesn't really matter at any point in the game and the frig is not supposed to have any kind of special role in a navy fight, other than tanking and dealing lots of damage! This ability should just be completly ignored in this discussion.

The real problem is that other factions have cheaper and far better versions of the frigate. Giving some random weird ability to compensate just makes no sense.
It is clear that the insane mass cost and buildtime (because every frig is supposed to cost 4 mass/sec in a t1 fac) have to be adressed. Just changing those two things will make it a lot more balanced. The only changes that make real sense are hp buff and/or mass cost/buildtime reduction
Also keep in mind that you have to build Shards to get some AA, which costs more time and mass.

Therefore it only makes sense to reduce the mass cost and buildtime of the aeon frig by a lot

I suggest reducing the mass cost by 40-50 and proportinally the build time. An aeon frig that costs 240 mass would be completed in 60 sec, instead of 72.5 sec. Then the aeon frig would be the cheapest frig, but also still the one with the lowest hp. This would also save you more mass and time for the construction of Shards.
With 10 more mass cost, the Cybran frig would still be better because of its AA. Cheaper and faster constructed aeon frigs would also make them better against hover, because you can make more. (aeon frig is the worst frig to deal with hover )

[Wesmania]

Aeon have T1 hover for smaller ponds and good destroyers for larger ones, is having the worst frigate that much of a deal-breaker for them?

[Yolo-]

Aeon have T1 hover for smaller ponds and good destroyers for larger ones, is having the worst frigate that much of a deal-breaker for them?

What kind of argument is that?? People without a clue should stay quiet.
How can you argue that frigs should be shit because they have t1 hover?? Aurora are a faction specific land warfare unit, not a unit for navy fights. Auroras are sooo bad vs navy units that it makes no sense to even think about them as such. Also it doesn't matter if the destroyers are good, because the frigate is a unit that you need the whole game. The destroyer just isn't as efficient as frigs in late game navy fights.

So yes, from my experience, and that of other skilled navy players, this garbage frig is a deal-breaker for aeon

[Endranii]

Aeon again, RE....
Or minute 5 mid engie please
Kappa

[Farmsletje]

Can you please stop using those forum emoticons you are literally being worse than hitler