Aeon Frig is TERRIBLE !!!!!

[Apofenas]

Thinking about changing the torp def is missing the point. It just doesn't really matter at any point in the game and the frig is not supposed to have any kind of special role in a navy fight, other than tanking and dealing lots of damage! This ability should just be completly ignored in this discussion.

As you said, frigate is supposed to be good at tanking. Take a look at this https://youtu.be/BfPc8GCb7kY?t=1m30s
It took me like 3-4 lines of code to fix it. Fix what was broken for like over 10 years as FAF never changed that projectile. With such change aeon frigate becomes perfect anti-torpedo unit.

Further tests required, but you can get clear idea how good this ability can be.

[Yolo-]

As you said, frigate is supposed to be good at tanking. Take a look at this https://youtu.be/BfPc8GCb7kY?t=1m30s
It took me like 3-4 lines of code to fix it. Fix what was broken for like over 10 years as FAF never changed that projectile. With such change aeon frigate becomes perfect anti-torpedo unit.

Further tests required, but you can get clear idea how good this ability can be.

Well great, but you still completly miss the point

It still gets raped by other frigates or air, aeon still has to spend more mass and time in AA and frigs. Better anti torp doesn't make it competitive against other factions. It doesn't help to kill other frigs, it doesn't kill air, it doesn't kill hover, it doesn't protect your late game navy against other frigs.
The only thing it does is making subs less effective BUT aeon already has the best anti sub destroyer, great t2 subs and a tempest with 80 range depth charge.

It doesn't need any weird abilities, IT NEEDS masscost and buildtime reduction to make it competitive agianst other faction frigates!

[AdmiralZeech]

The thing you need to think about is, does the bad Aeon frigate cause Aeon to lose on water maps (in skilled play)? If not, then obviously Aeon has other strengths to make up for it, such as hover T1 or its other ships.


So, if currently Aeon are balanced on water maps, wouldn't buffing its frigates cause Aeon as a whole to become overpowered? So what would you like to nerf to compensate?

[Yolo-]

The thing you need to think about is, does the bad Aeon frigate cause Aeon to lose on water maps (in skilled play)? If not, then obviously Aeon has other strengths to make up for it, such as hover T1 or its other ships.


So, if currently Aeon are balanced on water maps, wouldn't buffing its frigates cause Aeon as a whole to become overpowered? So what would you like to nerf to compensate?

Obviously I thought about it, why do you think I made this post?
Aeon navy is by far the weakest, the only viable strategy for Aeon is Destroyer only spam (and in T3 navy stage it only really works against Cybran). Omen is still pretty bad, especially against UEF. Now setons navy fights are not balanced, because of rock vs beach mass difference, mid and air influence. However Aeon still loses a lot more than other factions and if it wins, it is still slower and more expensive than other factions at winning and killing bases.
I don't understand why everyone assumes everything is balanced properly just because nobody touched it for years.

[Exotic_Retard]

I don't understand why everyone assumes everything is balanced properly just because nobody touched it for years.

i try not to post on balance too often, but i think that yolo has the right idea here :>

[LabPunk]

Aeon navy is by far the weakest,

Aeon destro and BS will defeat any of the other faction's equivalent 1v1, including submerged Sera destro.
Aeon have best naval AA, and T3 Torp, and only noteworthy naval Exp.
Additionally Aeon have best t1 tank, which can also hover in water, having a slightly crappier frigate is perfectly okay. No faction is supposed to be good at everything.
Aeon frigate is still stronger in its niche than say the Rhino, or the Yenzine.

[____]

I am pretty sure this is a troll post, but under the impression that there might still be a chance you actually mean all of this, I will still replay anyway.

Aeon destro and BS will defeat any of the other faction's equivalent 1v1

The aeon destroyer can have the most insane stats ever, if 90% of the shots get dodged those stats don't matter. Also, like every other destroyer, it loses to the Sera destroyer by a mile.

including submerged Sera destro.

The submerged Sera destroyer isn't strong, so I don't get what you want to accomplish with this statement.

Aeon have best naval AA

Yes, the Aeon cruiser is the best against air units with his high HP and very strong DPS. Sadly, it is almost useless in the other categories, especially the anti-navy weapon is a complete joke. The T2 flak and shields however are nice.

and T3 Torp

As already stated, multiple times, the Solace is not cost efficient, and most of its torps can be outpaced quite easily. Additionally, you need a T3 air HQ to build it, which almost nobody does, other than the air player. On small navy maps, the game is regularly pretty much over, before anyone even reaches the T3 air stage. So, if it were any good it would be more of a positive for Aeon air than Aeon navy. It’s not good however.

and only noteworthy naval Exp.

In the current balance the Tempest is still not all that efficient and certainly not a reason to choose Aeon navy over any other navy. Luckily that might change after the patch.

Additionally Aeon have best t1 tank, which can also hover in water, having a slightly crappier frigate is perfectly okay.

Auroras get absolutely murdered by frigs, are super slow and die to one t1 bomber. They can be good for delaying a probable navy loss, against a competent player however, the aurora will make little difference in almost any other situation.

No faction is supposed to be good at everything.

This thread is not about making Aeon great at everything, it is supposed give a unit, which makes literally 50-95% of a navy force, and is built from min 5 until you won/lost your side, some attention.
The frigate is probably the most important naval unit, when one faction has a crushing weakness in that aspect, while the others are totally fine, we have got ourselves a problem.

[LabPunk]

This thread is not about making Aeon great at everything, it is supposed give a unit, which makes literally 50-95% of a navy force, and is built from min 5 until you won/lost your side, some attention.
The frigate is probably the most important naval unit, when one faction has a crushing weakness in that aspect, while the others are totally fine, we have got ourselves a problem.

I know this should come last, but I'll admit something here.
It's not a crushing weakness. This is the pointless hyperbole that turns people off.
Buffing the Aeon frig makes it top tier, which clearly it shouldn't be.
But, I actually had another look at the entire thread and agree the frig costs too much, reducing costs to 270M, 2.700E, would be good, build time 1.2 too, would less even than Cybran, but allows extra time to build shards.

So I actually now agree with you, the rest of the garbage is here:

The aeon destroyer can have the most insane stats ever, if 90% of the shots get dodged those stats don't matter. Also, like every other destroyer, it loses to the Sera destroyer by a mile.

This is simply not true. UEF destro is objectively the strongest.

Aeon destros don't get dodged 90% of the time, even in 1 on 1 micro-ed engagements, let alone in actual engagements.
I also don't understand the pointless hyperbole here.
The Aeon frig does okay against opposing frigs.
It loses to Cybran, ties against UEF and wins against Sera frigs.
Yes, it lacks AA, but let's not pretend that frigate AA is good. Frigs lose mass for mass even to Jesters.
Besides, as you said, frigs are supposed to be cannon fodder in later stages, not for air support.

The submerged Sera destroyer isn't strong, so I don't get what you want to accomplish with this statement.

Yes, the Aeon cruiser is the best against air units with his high HP and very strong DPS. Sadly, it is almost useless in the other categories, especially the anti-navy weapon is a complete joke. The T2 flak and shields however are nice.

As already stated, multiple times, the Solace is not cost efficient, and most of its torps can be outpaced quite easily. Additionally, you need a T3 air HQ to build it, which almost nobody does, other than the air player. On small navy maps, the game is regularly pretty much over, before anyone even reaches the T3 air stage. So, if it were any good it would be more of a positive for Aeon air than Aeon navy. It’s not good however.

In the current balance the Tempest is still not all that efficient and certainly not a reason to choose Aeon navy over any other navy. Luckily that might change after the patch.

The point here is that Aeon have a navy that lack any specific weakness. Seraphim has a sub weakness, UEF destros are strong but are the only to lose against submerged Sera destros, by a large margin, and UEF lacks t3 AA, and Cybran has no cost effective TML bombardment options, or naval shielding. All other factions lack even a remotely decent naval Exp.
It isn't just the cruiser that provides powerful AA either, Shards are actually pretty great, and their 800 Health just trolls torpedo bombers which deal 750 damage.

Auroras get absolutely murdered by frigs, are super slow and die to one t1 bomber. They can be good for delaying a probable navy loss, against a competent player however, the aurora will make little difference in almost any other situation.

My point is, every factions has weakness and strengths. Aurora get murdered by frigs, yes, the hover has other purposes.

[ZeRen]

Shard is trolling torps? well I dont know

2x Shard = 1 Torp = 240 mass
torp win easily, maybe in bigger numbers it will be better for Shard

btw. I prefere float flak to protect my navy against torps, cant be killed by torps and wreak gunships

[____]

It's not a crushing weakness. This is the pointless hyperbole that turns people off.
Buffing the Aeon frig makes it top tier, which clearly it shouldn't be.

Buffing something does not instantly make it top tier. And yes, it is a crushing weakness because it is by far the most used naval unit and much worse than the other frigs.

This is simply not true. UEF destro is objectively the strongest.

Yeah especially against t2 subs or when you are playing against a good player who dodges every shot :kappa: It does not even have 80 range like the other destroyers which have easily dodged weapons.

Aeon destros don't get dodged 90% of the time, even in 1 on 1 micro-ed engagements, let alone in actual engagements.
I also don't understand the pointless hyperbole here.

Well you are playing with people who don’t know how to play against aeon then. Also, if it’s clearly a hyperbole why reply to it in a way that makes it seem like it wasn’t?

The Aeon frig does okay against opposing frigs.
It loses to Cybran, ties against UEF and wins against Sera frigs.

While costing much more, having a longer build time, no aa and no 360-degree turret angle on both of its weapons like the sera frig (sera only has one turret).

Yes, it lacks AA, but let's not pretend that frigate AA is good. Frigs lose mass for mass even to Jesters.
Besides, as you said, frigs are supposed to be cannon fodder in later stages, not for air support.

I would like to introduce you to the Cybran frig.

The point here is that Aeon have a navy that lack any specific weakness.

Yes, except that the most important unit is an utter joke. And almost every shot being dodged.

and UEF lacks t3 AA,

???

All other factions lack even a remotely decent naval Exp.

They don't need them anyway. Especially not UEF and Cybran.

It isn't just the cruiser that provides powerful AA either, Shards are actually pretty great, and their 800 Health just trolls torpedo bombers which deal 750 damage.

Why would I build shards beyond the min 8 mark when I can just build t2 hover flak which doesn’t die to torps to begin with?

My point is, every factions has weakness and strengths. Aurora get murdered by frigs, yes, the hover has other purposes.

Like what? If it has other purposes why not name them? It’s a good land unit but this is about naval warfare.