Balance patch 3696 Feedback Thread

[JoonasTo]

Yeah I wrote that in a hurry and frankly your posts on forum often make you seem like someone who isn't that well versed in how the game plays(I know you're aware of how it works though) so I figured the fastest way to get things across was to make it very basic.

So you think Titans should not be part of the T3 army? You realise this is the case already, no one seriously builds titans for the main army because Percivals are so superior. Loyalists on the other hand are a stable unit for most Cybran T3 armies. So can I take this as a wish to preserve the status quo?
Or do you wish to remove the raiding capability from the loyalist? That would require a pretty huge speed nerf that would make them useless in other roles as well(because they need to run into enemy army for the EMP) or a really big damage nerf which would again make them too expensive for T3 army use and delegate them to niche trolling unit like the current firebeetle.
So I'm not quite sure what's your point here in relation to the patch. Is it don't make Titan more useful? Don't make Loyalist weaker in a fight?

Also visual recognition is important ofc, but maybe not so much in supcom because you don't see them. Only in casts or highlight vids do I actually view the battlefield from that close, otherwise my field is just full of icons moving about. I gain the information from the form of the icon, the speed of which it moves and the projectile pattern it shoots.

That brings me to an idea. We should have an icon for amphibious units. This would help recognition.
A half-dome/half-diamond would work nicely and could even have the dome representing if it's an underwater or overwater capable unit.
Something like this:



PS. Shield logic in this game is fucked up, they only regen shieldpoints out of combat but if completely shut down they will restore the whole shield while in combat(usually way faster than what regen does.) So they work the opposite of how you would think. Until someone fixes/changes that behaviour small, fast restoring shields are in fact a very strong combat ability. Heavier, longer restoring shields are more hit'n'run things.

[biass]

About seraphim as a race:
Their faction is often touted as having a roster of very specialised, jack of all trades units. Stuff like the selen, ythota, battleship take on the roles other factions need two or so units for, but in typical GPG fashion the rules are somewhat bent around to accommodate gamebalance (snipers), they're not geared towards offence or defence in any form, but their lack of real comeback potential cause a lot of all in attacks like zthuees, gun ilshy, etc.
Lore clarification:
Seraphim warriors are disconnected from "The way" in order to wage combat, as the religion forbids violence, thus, as seraphim are typically very overly emotional creatures along with the feeling of outcasted-ness from being cut off from their own race cause warriors to be very angry and violent, really edgy all around, they should start conscripting from the faf discord imho.

About the icons: someone already came up with this exact idea, in said discord, was it you? i forget.
Either way, the idea was proved to not be so good, what might look good on paper expanded to 200% would only be needed in the niche scenario where amphibtanks/tanks were mixed together on land, because of course regular tanks cannot go onto the water, and a faction is not seraphim, and then the apm and constant camera movement will make what is reality is just a few pixels moved over a lil too hard to distinguish. Not only that, but it would garble up very amphib factions such as aeon t1 and cause a lot of extra effort to identify units if the icon change is even noticeable at all.

If you had to change something, make it not the currently very well made set of four shapes (buildings, land, air, sea) and something like the element actually inside the shape, that is made for more advanced identification already. adding a small wave or another simple lineart would work far better without reworking what was already a really well made part of supcom's ui design, you can still easily see that a land unit is a land unit, and then if you needed to see what was a floaty boi for whatever reason you could check the inside, it's been proven to work for arty, aa, etc and should work here if it's well made.

[JoonasTo]

We already have icons for:
Building
Tracked
Bot
Surface vessel
Underwater vessel
Air
Experimental
Command

So it's not like they're a well defined set of four shapes now but I agree, somekind of wave symbol would be good. Having a game where you are playing like nothing new and then zhtuees just decide to come wreck your navy is like, eh, he was Seraphim? xD

[ZeRenCZ]

Why on Earth does Aeon have best early-mid ACU, Aurora, Mercy, swiftwind, harb rush, sniper bots, best t1 mobile AA, emissary (renders other t3 stationary Arty useless), salvation, restorer, etc?

They have the best in almost every category and no one in balance has ever batted an eye at it. It's getting really obnoxious to play against them in open field maps where t2 land is difficult to rush.

right? that is why I play Aeon now, over all very well balanced

but Cybran is nefed into oblivion, because some UEF cry babies

btw. Aeon and UEF best over all balanced faction, Cyb and Sera suck in many ways

Farm: "OP tele/lazer combo"
yea few cheap PDs dont counter it at all

[Farmsletje]

Farm: "OP tele/lazer combo"
yea few cheap PDs dont counter it at all

No it doesnt genius

[TheKoopa]

I love how back then it was considered super easy to counter but now after no changes it's super op for some reason

[JoonasTo]

It's easy to counter if the map is small turtle, just make 20 T1/ 10 T2 PD in base. If the map is not of the turtle variant it's incredibly frustrating since you need to build approximately 120 T1/ 60 T2 PD to protect your holdings on an average 20km map.

I love how back then it was considered super easy to counter but now after no changes it's super op for some reason

There have been huge changes to TeleMazor/TeleDoubleGun acus, biggest of all the veterancy buff from killing bases. A couple of T3 pgens give instant five vet to commanders now.
Double Gun also got a significant damage boost.

A slight nerf to teleport charge speed would be welcome, this would allow TMLs to hit from a little further range, for example. Would make defending against teleporting ACUs less of a pain.

[Feather]

Not true actually, mazor was starting to be used a lot more heavily before that patch. And personally, I used it a lot before patch and it's effectiveness was barley increased because of that change. It actually might have made it worse because you vet too quickly and waste hp boosts.

Just a coincidence that people started using tele more before the patch.

[Farmsletje]

For your average teamgame:

teleport + lazer + gun = 20k mass. 4 e storage + 4 t3 pgens = 15k mass (Enough e to get the upgrades in a little over 3 min), meaning that total lazer cost is bout 35k mass.

Lets say minimal tele def is 20 t1 pd + 5 t2 pd (for if the acu tele's outside of t1 pd range) + 3 t2 shields (because without the shields it will be a draw which means you can just help a non airslot ally get the upgrade and suicide at the air player for instant win). That's
9500 mass for UEF (can't be bothered for other factions, but basically +-1k mass), x4 core bases = 38k mass just to defend 4 areas on the map against tele. Then you haven't defended your smd vs tele yet, our your air grid which needs more t2 pd.

And that's only for 10km maps where tele is supposed to be a lot weaker. On 20km maps there are a lot of t3 mexes that can't be all defended vs tele. Take sentons for example, have to make pd on the island too, pd in the 3 mex expansion from the air player, pd in the 3 mex expansion from the beach player, pd around every smd, etc etc. The same is for any other 20 km map.

I once had a sentons game where i killed 60k mass worth of stuff with telelazer and forced about 100k mass investment in pd/shielding while still keeping my acu alive. Even 4min after my first teleport killing stuff i was still teleporting to single t3 mexes and insta teleporting away so that i wouldn't die to strats.

[Strogo]

Yeah, tele is too op on seton's now. I checked the code to see if we can make delays without changing charge speed (as that will increase animation time too and give more time for your opponent to react) and yes, we can.

Here is example. I used 30 sec delay after 2 jumps to show that we can make delay after several jumps (make tele more like "one hit - run - wait for next raid" weapon or "hit - hit again - die") or just use short delays after each jump.