Balance patch 3696 Feedback Thread

[Farmsletje]

Glad to see we have the main EQ promotor back in action

[Apofenas]

So If I follow example of some well known rating abusers I could farm 1800 on Winter duel and than break 2k on stacking all welcome dual gap. Than i could make a mod that does something stupid, for example let Scathis fire from underwater. Would that mod be considered more fair and balanced than whole EQ?

You know, rating means more than years of work, hours of analisis & test games, number of tourneys and community feadback, right?

[FtXCommando]

Farm's post was meant to be taken as a joke boys.

[PhilipJFry]

The day that i consciously agree to something that ithilis suggests will be the day that i become able to read minds over great distances.

[Petricpwnz]

So If I follow example of some well known rating abusers I could farm 1800 on Winter duel and than break 2k on stacking all welcome dual gap. Than i could make a mod that does something stupid, for example let Scathis fire from underwater. Would that mod be considered more fair and balanced than whole EQ?

You know, rating means more than years of work, hours of analisis & test games, number of tourneys and community feadback, right?

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

kappa

[Blackheart]

This is the most brutal selfroast in the history of faf and possibly the internet.

[Apofenas]

Oh do you think I didn't know about it and randomly put that example? Pff. We had a lot of chat about it for a long time. How could I miss opportunity to joke on Ithilis in such ironic way as he refuses to change that awfull concept?

[Mielus]

I really appreciate the time people are spending on this balance patch, but I feel the coming balance patch 3696 is so big it makes it complicated to see all it's effects.
A more "agile" method of balance changes could help the balance team.
Keep in mind: Not only teamgames is affected but also 1v1, where race wide balance changes have more impact.

Keep It Simple and only make smaller balance changes which can be released quicker:

• Set long term goals, but do not try to achieve them in one balance patch release, work towards the goals in several smaller releases.
• Rule of thumb: No more than a 10% change in some attributes, the impact on a large scale can be bigger than you imagine.
  
  • Look at underutilized units and buff them a bit, this makes for more variety in game play.
  • Look at overpowered units and nerf them, be careful with OP claims, most of the time people simply don't use the right counter move.
• Test the patch for a few weeks, fix the unexpected effects/bugs and release in small portions into production at a steady rate. (4 times a year is also a steady state )
• See if the balance changes bring you towards the ultimate balance goals, or have unexpected side effects. Repeat the 10% rule.
• Release bug fixes ahead of balance changes.

Some toughs/comments on proposed changes:

The aim is to allow a larger window on a large number of maps for the T2 land stage

I like this idea, but Imho the most simple solution in to increase the cost of the tech 3 land upgrade. If this upgrade costs "enough" t2 tanks, rushing this upgrade will make you lose map control.
To keep balance throughout the game t3 navy and air HQ may also need to be increased.

First is the nerf to direct fire T3 Land units.

I think the balance is reasonably good now, nerfing the t3 units only to promote the t2 land stage creates lots of other problems like making air over powered, the need to re-balance experimentals and maybe even navy.
Some changes to the t3 land are a good idea, but there are so many units changed at once and changes to individual units are very big: consider making smaller changes.

Third is the increase in Experimental Build times

Something must be done here because of the big t3 nerf, but other mass sinks remain: so now everyone is going to build nukes and t3 arty only to end the game after this patch?
Or tech 3 naval will become the OP mass sink?
Is having mass sinks even a problem? Uef and Cybran have very flexable and strong build power with their kennels and hives, Aeon and Seraphim will suffer more from the increased build time.
If you start pulling on threads to hard the whole balance keeps unraveling, changes are to big here.

Megalith Build Time: 18.750 → 60.625

Just one example: That is a 323% change in one attribute, that is no reblance, that is changing the rules
Why nerf this experimental so much harder than the other ones, trying to fix 2 "problems" at once?
This is going to cause other balance problems, the Megalith also has anti navy role on some maps for example.
A spotted exprimental build can be countered by gunships/strats more easily, maybe even prevented by a TML battery, or one could turtle up and spam t2 arty.

T3 static arty is re-balanced into two range tiers. Cybran gets an increased rate of fire in exchange for lower damage

Range and dps are the most important attributes of t3 arty, sure area of effect and firecyle matter, but the main idea is keeping your t3 arty safe at the back and shooting the other teams t3 arties/nuke defenses
Imho all game enders should be more or less equal for all races. In team games, the most OP one is going to used by race sharing.
Right now the Aeon T3 arty has the best dps and range and is the most expensive, but the cost difference is so little compared to the total cost.
Why keep the 50 range difference? Removing all the range dps and cost differences will be even better.

[PsychoBoB]

@Balanceteam: Are there any conclusions after more than two month of feedback?

[Morax]

I really appreciate the time people are spending on this balance patch, but I feel the coming balance patch 3696 is so big it makes it complicated to see all it's effects.

Not goin to happen. The game is quite complicated and a team of 2-3 people testing this stuff takes forever.

It the community was more engaged in testing balance beyond sandbox we could maybe do this... However, try hosting a "fafbalance" mod team game and get a motivated crowd, then suggest this.