This is really off topic now but tbh I'm not arsed creating new threads and moving posts when there's basically one active thread at any time in the balance forum.
So about balancing using the cost of HQs vs rebalancing units, I'll first say that taking one approach for T2 HQs does not mean that the same approach must be used for T3 HQs. The problems are separate, there is no logical reason that because in the past we increased the cost of T2 HQs to alter the balance between T1 and T2, that we must now take the same approach when altering T2 vs T3.
Second, alterations have already been made to the T3 HQ. Its buildtime was increased from 9400 → 11000. Also when the T2 HQ cost was increased it also increased the total cost of getting to T3 because ofc you must make a T2 HQ to get T3 HQ. Obviously these did essentially nothing to stop T3 rushing from being a favourite and powerful strategy of many players on a large number of maps.
We are not completely ruling out alterations to the T3 HQ, however we are sure that simply changing the T3 HQ will not have the desired effects, so we are committed to making changes to the T3 units. The fundamental problem in our eyes is that T3 units are too strong vs T2, so we will attempt to address this first. We may make subsequent alterations to the HQ but we are focused on the units the themselves atm and it is too early to say whether HQ changes will be necessary. Given that we find the problem to be the effectiveness of T3 tanks vs T2 tanks basically, altering the HQ is an imprecise way of dealing with this because it will affect the cost of getting T3 mobile arty to defeat ravagers, the cost of T3 engies for SAM launchers, or T3 Mobile anti-air. It's a blunt instrument.
FtXCommando wrote:Balance patch basically fixed titan by making it like loya and othuum by making it like harb. Gotta fix brick and make it kinda like percy as well otherwise UEF is ridiculously OP. That's how you end up rebalancing all of T3 when you try to fix a few units.
*Obviously there are still differences between the units in the t3 rebalance, but the differences are way more subtle than they currently are.*
We didn't begin by aiming to fix the Othuum and Titan and then end up rebalancing every unit, we intended to rebalance T3 land units and attempt to "fix" those units in the process. Also shitposts really lose their edge when you put a disclaimer at the end.
Steel_Panther wrote:Thanks for answering my question Keyser. The first reason makes sense, though I can see that the higher efficiency of higher tier units should be proportional to the cost of the tech upgrade, and so increasing the cost of the t3 hq would also justify the strength differential. I can understand how just making them closer might be better because it would otherwise make the upgrade too risky to get in a lot of circumstances. It just seemed to me that the current cost is really very low. According to the unit database the t3 hq is 4440 mass, (roughly 3.5 t3 bricks or percies), but the additional cost of upgrading from a t2 hq is only 3500 mass, roughly 2.7 bricks or percies (or 7.3 loyalists). Even increasing the cost by 2500 mass, means they have will have two less bricks (or 5 less loyals). It doesn't seem like a big game changer to me to go from say, a t3 army of 5 percies down to 3, even with a proportionally large increase in the tech upgrade cost.
It's better to think of the HQ cost in terms of T2 units rather than T3 because you make the T3 HQ when you can afford it and you won't lose too much in the process of upgrading. Or you upgrade it because you saw your opponent has T3 land and you have to stop whatever you're doing and instantly start making a T3 HQ because you will lose if you don't. That number of T3 units in the early T3 stage can/should be game winning btw, the difference is not as small as you seem to think.
When we go into beta we will have a detailed post about all the changes and the reasoning behind them but right now we are still in alpha so things are subject to drastic change. Also props to the balance team for really stepping up recently and getting a lot of work done.