Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

[Ithilis_Quo]

old system: 13/20 vet. -> im litle after midle so if its not too risky i should stay there to get vet
new system: 628/1000 vet -> im litle after midle so if its not too risky i should stay there to get vet

this is what it say you.


Every change every time leads to frustration and resistance in parth of population, same as status quo make people rage against status quo. thats what make humans to be humans.

Change will make thinks diferent on multiple levels, and some are good and some not, but it should be compared as whole to make reasonable conclusion.

[Franck83]

the numbers were all equal and nicely rounded maybe it could work but, as you say yourself, theyre not. And they are many.

Because the previous vet system was an 'absolute' one that didn't care about unit model. The new one is a 'relative' one.
If we want to introduce a relative model without using mass balance reference, you need to make complex xp reference database (ie battleship gains 10 Xp against tech 2 engy, 40 xp vs tech2 destroyer...).

A more realistic model implies more informations and more complexity.

In my alliance of heroes mod, i wanted a realistic vet system, and i introduced before this patch a 'relative mass' vet system. That was the way to go for a more realistic vet model. i'm not surprised if this patch went to the same option.
The differences are that i'm on a last hit system (i prefer the proportional one introduced with 3688 patch). But i added other things : 1. the Xp gained is capped so you can't gain too much levels. 2. if the unit killed is not a military one, you gain only 1/4 of the xp. 3. you gain more xp vs higher level units and less vs lower level units.

The question is : what does the community want ? for a mod, i'm on a pure creative process. I can do what i think is better. For an official patch, is creativity allowed ?

Maybe making 2 FAF official branches can unlock creativity. A conservative one (same system. Bug correction only). A creative one (improving FA with new game mechanics).

[biass]

old system: 13/20 vet. -> im litle after midle so if its not too risky i should stay there to get vet
new system: 628/1000 vet -> im litle after midle so if its not too risky i should stay there to get vet

this is what it say you.


Every change every time leads to frustration and resistance in parth of population, same as status quo make people rage against status quo. thats what make humans to be humans.

Change will make thinks diferent on multiple levels, and some are good and some not, but it should be compared as whole to make reasonable conclusion.

Again, you've assumed the populace is thinking a certain way, and we're not, a 13/20 is a 7 more kills/points, a 628/1000 system is too complicated to even touch on, and the counter isn't even the complicated part, compared to the calculations on what is entering the counter.

Positive changes need thought, development and rationale, and just pushing a change into a main area without much discussion will always lead to protest, no matter what kind of garbled philosophical message you say to back it up.

Consider this, im the dictator of the world, and my world has an obesity problem. So i come out one day and announce all humans must now use the gym 3 times a week. People will protest, why? do they hate change? No, people have varying reasons and inabilities i haven't discussed or developed into my plan, and like the faf change, it clearly shows.

Also for next patch, can we have the official patch-notes on the forums to discuss at least 2 weeks or so in advance? this system of pushing with no reverts allowed and then mostly pointless feedback isn't really working out.

[biass]

Maybe making 2 FAF official branches can unlock creativity. A conservative one (same system. Bug correction only). A creative one (improving FA with new game mechanics).

this splits the small player-base up into fragments, especially among the dwindling population of "pro players"
You're already on the right track, the best way to show off changes or differing takes on balance is with a mod, see things like EQ or the new and improved BHEDIT if blackheart uploaded it yet

[twentyseven]

Every change every time leads to frustration and resistance in parth of population, same as status quo make people rage against status quo. thats what make humans to be humans.

Change will make thinks diferent on multiple levels, and some are good and some not, but it should be compared as whole to make reasonable conclusion.

Yes, people generally dislike change. People also don't like to admit when they're wrong either. They can also be incredibly stubborn and choose not to listen to the community. Perhaps if your arguments weren't so flawed you wouldn't need to resort to empty rhetoric. You say the new system is not complicated and follow it up with an incredibly complicated example and explanation. Community says its easier and more certain to remember "i need 3 units to 'level up'". And you say "No, it's just as easy to remember 572 mass = 3 scouts + 3.4 tanks + 1 aa + whatever."

"People will resist change" does not mean the change is good. It just means you're running out of arguments and are now calling everyone who opposes you ignorant and that we can't understand your all-seeing wisdom.

[Freedomfighter]

Another change I've noticed that isn't in the patch notes ACU vet gives +6 hp/s regen for all factions instead of +3 for aeon sera and uef and +4 for Cybran.

[Ithilis_Quo]

Positive changes need thought, development and rationale, and just pushing a change into a main area without much discussion will always lead to protest, no matter what kind of garbled philosophical message you say to back it up.

This question is out of me, im not in balance team, and yes i agree that there should be more comunication toward comunity.
But while im fundamental father of this system i argue about it.

"i need 3 units to 'level up'". And you say "No, it's just as easy to remember 572 mass = 3 scouts + 3.4 tanks + 1 aa + whatever."

isnt it obvious? Then there is also question why not get back old old system, where for every kill was 1 vet? Isnt it more simply? Who can calcule how much t1 t2 t3 t4 sacu of acu kills neeed to manage 20 points? From my point of view it will be absurd step back, same this will be after primar storm when something is diferent as was.

Spoiler: show

And yes im kinda owner of this super selfish all-seeing wisdom over this topic. And yes after two years im kinda lazy to comunicate it properly.

[biass]

I mean im sorry but:
You've written something so incomprehensible that I've nothing to to bounce off of as one would in a normal conversation
like i can read what you wrote but are you actually saying anything here? Please try again.

And yes im kinda owner of this super selfish all-seeing wisdom over this topic. And yes after two years im kinda lazy to comunicate it properly.

This however says a lot, im not sure you should have said it in the first place.

[twentyseven]

isnt it obvious?

And yes im kinda owner of this super selfish all-seeing wisdom over this topic. And yes after two years im kinda lazy to comunicate it properly.

Thanks. I now realize arguing and raising concerns here is absolutely futile.

[FtXCommando]

Well, I still fall into the camp that this change was ultimately superfluous. I've never heard of the veterancy system being an issue for players until after this patch came through. While the system isn't game-breaking, I see it as changing the game for changing's sake and that resources could have been better used in testing/balancing/updating other areas of the game.

I'm sure everyone will end up adjusting to the system in a couple months and people will have a rough idea of what they need to kill for a vet.

Also questioning how Ithilis can be trusted to give a reasonable opinion if he is seriously arguing that this system is EASIER to understand than the old one. If Blackheart's master in mathematics T H I C C ass says it's more complex, I'm going to go with that being true.