Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby JoonasTo » 28 Sep 2017, 20:58

T1 arty for one does far more damage than it's own mass cost. An experimental walking through a base does more damage than it's own mass cost. T1 bomber does more with a single bomb on enemy naval buildpower. Nuke on a base does more. Fighters killing bombers or transports(LOL at cargo onboard givin exp too.) SAM kills tons. Pretty much everything that has a high relative damage output does.

These really are values that should be set individually, it's just a lot of work. There's also a lot of balance involved and it's not exactly simple. A +1 regen lab after killing one engineer is crazy OP. A +1 regen lab after killing one tank is deserved. Better to avoid the extreme OP cases since those are the ones that ruin games and piss people off.

If you can fix the ctrl-k vet bug, that'd be nice since it's impossible to tell how much vet you're going to give to units doing that.
And since we're at it, could we make it so ctrl-k doesn't make a firestorm of your yotha? It's really annoying if you just want to return your yotha to be reclaimed. Optimally reclaiming your own yotha wouldn't create a firestorm either.

Make sure reclaiming your own units doesn't give vet if you put that part in. :lol:
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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby Farmsletje » 28 Sep 2017, 21:37

I was on 2k hp, enemy acu was next to me and getting killed. When it died i gained 2 vets because of the damage i dealt which resulted in me living.

Is this an accident or a feature to discourage combombs?
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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby IceDreamer » 28 Sep 2017, 21:58

I'd have to check the numbers, but you shouldn't gain more vet 'mass' than the value of an ACU (2000). If it takes 4000 to lvl, you should only level up once max. Jagged may have twiddled the numbers though.
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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby Farmsletje » 28 Sep 2017, 22:28

I went from 950 to around 2200 i think. Maybe the acu explosion killed units i shot at with my acu before and that got me extra vet? ))

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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby IceDreamer » 28 Sep 2017, 23:07

That is a definite possibility. One side effect of the new system is a mental one. You no longer can, and no longer should, be watching your vet numbers really really closely, since they're more fluid now. Vet will be more like in other games where it just happens, more often than before, and becomes a real function of army combat instead of simply something to babysit one or two unit types for. It becomes a reward to a unit rather than the goal of play, and instead of seeking it out, a player should use their time to maximise the benefits given by it after it's achieved naturally.
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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby Farmsletje » 28 Sep 2017, 23:23

You call it something to babysit, others call it micro and a good game feature.
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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 28 Sep 2017, 23:24

Farmsletje wrote:I went from 950 to around 2200 i think. Maybe the acu explosion killed units i shot at with my acu before and that got me extra vet? ))

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that should be posible, while you get exp after units that you do dmg die, so when acu explosion kill units that you damage it will get you xp that can reasult in 2vet. But remember that same situation (with 1 vet) should happend in same way in previous point system, where after kiling acu get vet and survive. Solusion for this is in equilibrium and that is remove insta heal after vet. Lot of cancer diseapear. Or you can get it as feature where it promote agresive acu gamplay where for kiling acu you get more likely vet. But this is very rare, while depend on how much dmg your acu do, no if your acu fihish it.

About regeneration and repair, this i dont see as any potencial problem while exp indicator get how much % of dmg units deal. So when some units is repaired back to 100% hp then damage indicator that calcule experience for kill rise with it, what is logical and fair.

about bombers, sams and big impact units, its not problem at all, thats type of units, while its shock units type that all time will work as this and reward should be same. Backdays bomber was most likely to vet after bomb, and doesn someone notice it? Probably not while T1 bomber with veterancy is no very diferent compare to bomber whiteout.

Also about 200% mass indicator, there is a good reason for that, and thats hudrets game that found this number as optimal to keep veterancy in similar state as was in past, what mean keep it kinda ussles. When this indicator was 150% or also 125% then units vet too fast and make unpredictable differencies that was reasult in "WTF this shit"? effect where players dont understand how it is posible that single tank destroy 2 tanks. I have a solution for it, but its complicate a political kontroversary, so its much easier and better keep veterancy on ussles state and 200% provide it pretty nicely. EQ work on it for two year with multiple chnages of vet indicators so i know what im talking about.

When you will be trying optimalize this system to something that will be "optimal" in every posible situation it will go nowhere and end on big madness that will make stuff much more chaotic a worse as when you start with it. This system is great, extremly easy to understand and predict, when are some gameplay issue change by this system, then adapt on it.

And to be honest think that this system change are extremly tiny.
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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby Freedomfighter » 28 Sep 2017, 23:32

Question, do Com upgrades effect the "mass" / "Vet" value of a commander?
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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby Farmsletje » 28 Sep 2017, 23:33

Ithilis_Quo wrote:that should be posible, while you get exp after units that you do dmg die, so when acu explosion kill units that you damage it will get you xp that can reasult in 2vet. But remember that same situation (with 1 vet) should happend in same way in previous point system, where after kiling acu get vet and survive. Solusion for this is in equilibrium and that is remove insta heal after vet. Lot of cancer diseapear. Or you can get it as feature where it promote agresive acu gamplay where for kiling acu you get more likely vet. But this is very rare, while depend on how much dmg your acu do, no if your acu fihish it.

lol excuse me? I got like 1200 "mass vet" from that acu explosion which roughly translates to 24 t1 units. How does that ever happen in the previous system. In my past 1800+ games of the previous system i've never seen anything like this happen before.

Also please keep this discussion about the actual balance patch and not about EQ promotion. You should know by know that i don't like the mod so it'll only make me disagree with you even more
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Re: Balance patch 3688 Feedback Thread

Postby IceDreamer » 28 Sep 2017, 23:36

Farmsletje wrote:You call it something to babysit, others call it micro and a good game feature.


You can still do this. The mental shift is from "Need to get this unit then this one to level up" to "Must keep this unit alive for a few more kills" which IMO is a step forwards. No micro has been lost. If you choose to micro, you can both micro, and you can get benefit from it. Personally I think the XP rate is too low right now.
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