Mass Fab Discussion

[Evan_]

from a theory and a practical perspective, t3 mass fabs are completely outclassed by t2 fabs. There are 2 uses for mass fabs, ecoing, and adjacency. In both cases t2 is way better.

Eco

The energy costs of t3 fabs make it flat out worse than t2, except in the instances where you have low space/bp (in which you should probably get sacus. on their own, t2 fabs give 1 mass for every 150 energy while t3 fabs give 1 mass for 293. You might think that the greater suvivability and more compactness of the t3 fab lets them pair nicely with t3 gens to shave off some of the e costs, except that a lone t2 fab is still more e efficient than a t3 fab with one t3 pgen (1 mass for 236 e) or even two t3 pgens (1 mass for 182 e).

In addition, t2 mass fabricators pay off their mass cost in 100 seconds, while t3 take 250. they are also in my opinion far safer for ecoing as you can just build small groups of them in the corner of the map. their death explosion won't hit anything with a 2 square block gap in between them.

Adjacency

When it comes to adjacency bonus, it's a bit more even, but to even get close to balanced it requires a lot of setup. If we pretend that the percival is the only unit in the game, building a t3 fab next to a factory saves around 4 mass per sec. With a complete ring around one t3 fab it can actually become slightly more efficient than a t2 fabricator (granted this is without considering any adjacency for the t2 fab, and the fact that this special t3 fab still has pay back it's own cost). But doing this takes an extreme amount of setup, and runs the risk of losing all your production to 2 strat bombers (which are dirt cheap by the time you can setup). with t2 fabs you don't get such a big bonus (unless you ring a factory with them) but a single t2 fab is actually affordable mid game and won't blow up in your face.

ideas for balancing the mass fabs:

I'm more inclined to buff t3 rather than nerfing t2

reduce the e cost of mass fabs or increase their mass generation.

increase adjacency bonus and maybe hp.

[biass]

So i have the unofficial changelog for the next patch that was put in aeolus (because im making a nice patchnotes webpage)

keep in mind this probably isn't final but this is what it says about fabs, from petric i assume:

Mass fabs rebalanced! T2 mass farms now cost 200 mass instead of 100 but only consume 100 power instead of 150! T3 mass faps... WOOOA YOU HAVE TO BE KIDDING ME! For only 1000 more mass and double the energy construction cost, new energy drain is some mere 1500 instead of 3500! AND it produces 16 faps per mass per second per fap instead of 12 previously! I know what I’m gonna be building on my next sentons game.
T3 mass fab adjacency bonus buffed! This change is fancy and scary so the writer of this changelog refrained to add any more details.

hope this helps

[PhilipJFry]

Here is the Pull Request for the mass fab rebalance.
I (or someone else) will probably make a proper page for the changes in the current beta patch. (we pushed a new version on the FAF beta game mode yesterday)
About the T2 Massfab and why we made it somewhat less efficient:
Currently you can build a T3 Pgen, surround it with T2 Fabs and then still have enough power to run additional 5 T2 fabs. That means that for a masss investment of 5340 you can get a mass income of 21 which means that after 254 seconds you break even.
A T3 mex (which is usually made as an upgrade from a capped T2 mex) costs 4600 mass and generates 18 mass (27 on its own but we already had 9 mass from the capped T2 mex). That means that the T3 mex pays off after 255 seconds.
I think that the T2 fab (which can be built endlessly as long as you have space to do so) shouldn't be that close to the efficiency of a T3 mex (since mass points are limited unless you play crazyrush)

The numbers that we use at the moment are still up in the air so if someone can present me good reasons why they suck i'll listen and adjust accordingly.

About the adjacency -> T3 fabs already give 20% bonus to size 16 buildings (factories) so you get 80% bonus if you place 4 t3 fabs adjacent to one fac.
I wouldn't want to go higher than that to be honest.

T2 Fab
100 mass build cost -> 200 mass build cost
150 power drain -> 100 power drain

T3 Fab
3000 mass build cost -> 4000 mass build cost
65k energybuild cost -> 120k energy build cost
4688 build time -> 5000 build time
12 mass gain -> 16 mass gain
uselss adjacency on small buildings -> 20% bonus on all buildings (except gateways those get roughly the same as t2 fabs when ringing the entire building)

[Exotic_Retard]

Equilibriumification: 100%

http://equilibrium.x10host.com/changelog/#economy

T2: 100m 4000e 500bt +1 -150e 360HP 370dmg → 200m 4000e 312.5bt +1m -100e 500HP, 500dmg
T3: 3000m 65000e 4988bt +14m -3500e 6000HP death explosion 14aoe → 4000m 120000e 5000bt +16m -1500e 5000HP death explosion 10aoe
They now provide a 20% adjacency bonus to all structures except quantum gateways.

We are living in dangerous times lads (:

[zeroAPM]

faps faps faps

I suggest you seek treatment for your addiction to porn