NOOB SAFETY NET

[Guesswho]

Supcom is difficult and the learning curve is high. Many balance problems make it obnoxious and repetitive. I have a couple of changes that are quite radical, but should help noobs, reduce micromanagement and prevent cheesy play. Apart the last three, they are meant to work together, not individually, and although they favour noobs, they will also simplify the game to everybody.

BUILD ORDER

Supcom relies on a stupid concept called build order, unique to every map, declined in many options, fined tuned to the second. This is simply because those who made the vanilla game and Total Annihilation didn't understand, much less tested, the effects of three different resources under pressure. They didn't anticipate multiplayer gameplay, and nobody corrected this afterwards. But learning build orders, sandboxing options and stressing about overflow is boring, and automatically make loose the noobs. They discourage new players and the good ones can't play with low ranking ones. All of this is stupid and can be corrected by simply multiplying by two or three the starting resource bars. Old players will find their tables obsolete, but even they won't stress because they forgot a pgen or walked the ACU too late.

MICRO

The very concept of micro shouldn't exist. If it does exist, it's because the specifications of a unit allow for something, but the AI is just too dumb to do it. Sometimes it's not even necessary for the computer to grow a brain, understand stuff and make the right decisions, even though it should. The problem is just that nobody ever included the command "dance" so that a unit can dodge bomb and shells, the command "zig zag", to dodge stuff all the while going in a given direction, or the command "attack this unit specifically but don't fucking stop to walk because the target is escaping". I would much appreciate such buttons. Other problems are very old, and simple, and dumb, and yet they are still there. I still don't know why units need to walk too much before building or reclaiming; I still don't know why tree clumps can be broken. I'm sure by now there are people who are fond of their wise movement orders specifically designed to limit engies' walking time. I'm sure there are people ready to argue their tree reclaiming strategy, simply because they deal with breakable clumps since the dawn of times. But again: micro shouldn't even exist.

RECLAIM

The same goes for reclaim. Build units have different reclaim radi whether they are given a manual reclaim order, a patrol or attack order, or an attack order was given to the factory that produced it. They have different reclaim speeds whether they are reclaiming per se or clearing an area before building a building. On top, obviously, of having different speeds and radi whether they deal with individual trees or unbroken clumps, as said before. Different values will inevitably lead to exploits based on... micro. And micro sucks. So I propose to uniform reclaim speeds and distances.

RECYCLING

In this game you build t1 pgens, then you recycle them when you have t2 or t3; you build engies from factories, then you recycle the factories when you have enough engies and need a t4. Some geeks will say "upcycle". Nerds. The thing is you have to either order engies to reclaim them one by one and wait that they eat through the health points too, or you can ctrl-k them, an option that damages units, building... and the wrecks you wanted to reclaim to begin with. Some players choose a compromise, and destroy every other t1 pgen on a line, then manually select wrecks and damaged pgens one by one. The three options are equally bad, so I propose to add a "demolition" shortcut, so as to destroy things without splash damage. Whatever the logic or explanation behind the ctrl-k order, whether it's realistic or not to destroy buildings instantly and without splash damage, such an option will spare a lot of APM. If it's not possible or practical to add a new order with a customizable shortcut, then I propose to simply take out the splash damage from the ctrl-k order and say goodbye to all the exploit tactics it allows, 'cause it's still better than manually recycle t1 pgens one by one.

TRAJECTORY

Turrets have many targets on range, and they choose the hill. Tactical missiles cost a lot of money, and they hit a hill. And if you don't pay attention you risk to launch another missile because the target it's still there... You order a mobile unit to attack something... it can move before firing... and it does move... it moves to a spot from where it can shoot at the hill. The simple fact that the game can render a shell's trajectory and its impact against an obstacle means it can also predict the result beforehand, and avoid shooting at the terrain. I've never been initiated to the intricacies of coding, much less to the limits of modding a game without the source code... But this one seems very simple. A simple yes or no check before firing would do miracles. How come nobody did it?

ASSASSINATION

Noobs forget the most basic rules. And noobs are everybody but fifty dudes. The thing is that many of these advises consist in manually doing things that can be automatized. So I propose to install a t1 radar on every ACU. Good players remember to build one, bad ones forget. Good players manually scout before diving on the front line; bad ones don't have the APM. And they forget too. If you think about it, the ACU is an important machine, while the radar is c_h_e_a_p and useful, so not having one installed by default is a serious design flaw, like a car without breaks.

SNIPE

The same goes for the ACU health. It takes twenty t1 units to kill an ACU, it takes a misclick for the exposed ACU to start reclaiming a tree and stumble into the t1 units. Sometimes on his own t1 units. So I propose to increase all ACU healths, including upgrades and promotions, by 50%. The result will be that in tiny maps noobs will exchange bases slightly more often, while good players will simply compensate with one more factory for spam. In tiny and average maps aggressive play will be easier, spam will last few minutes more and this will allow for more manoeuvres and raids. In large maps this will make ACUs vs experimentals slightly easier, and cheesy snipes with six corsairs or three tactical missiles will require nine or five respectively.

PATH-FINDING

Waiting the day computers get their shit together, you have to find workarounds to avoid traffic jams. That's why t4s have no size in the game mechanics and walk above allied units like they just don't care. That's why, unlike in Total Annihilation, wreaks are immaterial too. I guess that giving this property to ACUs will immediately offend old players' sensibilities, 'cause they are cheesy bastards that count precisely on ACUs being dumb, so I propose instead to increase the ACUs' turret turning speed by 50%, so that they can at least shoot properly.

APOCALYPSE NOW

Nukes are the opposite of strategy. They are totally dumb: they cost a lot, and then they either work, or not.
They are in the game because nowadays they exist, and in a futuristic setting there's no way they have less firepower than today. But they are still dumb. Bad players don't see them and then a single click decides the game, good players have to constantly watch out, and spend a lot of mass for SMLs here and there. The cost slows down the action on the front, and once a missile is launched, it's a flip of a coin. Because they are expensive, building nukes prevents a team in disadvantage to hold the front, while a team in advantage will have its nuke ready when the enemy is already broken. Having sea-based nukes is even dumber, because once a navy wins there's no way to dislodge it. The fact that SMDs can't stop ACU nukes is just unbalanced. I would like to remove all nukes, but I know is not gonna happen. So instead I propose to double the SML construction time, to double the build power that builds its missile and the required build power to build the missile, so as to half the contribution of assisting engies, to double the construction time of all nuclear missiles, to add a warning to Billy's launches and to allow SMDs to shut them down.

AERODYNAMICS

Hoover-bombing has been discussed for years. I'm against, on aesthetic grounds as well as balance. If it's possible to micro a unit, noobs will be at a disadvantage and old players will be better off. And the last patch made it worst: bombers are harder to micro, but it's still possible, and now only very good players can do that. I don't know if it's possible at all, but I propose that bombers, including Ahwassas, be able to drop bombs only at cruise speed, and obviously that they get their shit together and they handle their path so as to reach such a speed while doing their inevitable loops. And even, if necessary, allowing the AI to cheat and drop the bomb regardless of the speed, provided the player didn't micro the bomber since the previous order, just in case is too much to ask from the AI to control the units and to do it in a believable way. The idea, for this and other suggestions, is simple: microing is ugly and boring, and shouldn't even exist. If a unit can do something good, then the AI should do it automatically; if it can't, 'cause computers are just too dumb or the program is what it is and nobody will change it, then players should be physically forbidden to manually do it. This reduces the gap between good and bad players all the while taking away the annoying and repetitive part from the game.

ECOSYSTEM

This one comes up every now and then, but there's no point in having units that are useless. Among others, the air staging facility and the t3 mass fabricator need some serious buff.

ENGIES

I don't know if this one is possible, but engies should really reclaim enemy units as first priority, even if they are on the move or have orders other than attack or patrol.

SERAPHIM

People don't use Seraphim, especially noobs, especially on 1v1. I propose to speed up Selens and to increase the health of t1 tanks.

[TheKoopa]

Good try, but I'm guessing your rating is 0-500?

EDIT: I realized this is probably satire

[FtXCommando]

I'd make you Balance Councillor. You got the heart and that's all that matters.

[zeroAPM]

I'm guessing either Biass or BlackHearth

[biass]

I'm guessing either Biass or BlackHearth

I don't understand

@op

I need conformation if this is satire or not but good read but i have another idea for your safety net that is the trainer team:
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=1614#p16726

[zeroAPM]

Dude, between the name (guesswho) and the argument of the fecespost i'm pretty sure it's satire.
And I'm still pretty sure it's either you, blackheart or, now that i think of it, nepty behind that account.

[biass]

Ah okay, see without a quote or anything to context i didn't know what you meant, but no, its not me, and i doubt Blackheart or nepty would write that much either, even for a troll post

it could be ars or just some nub from east europe, poor guy.
But it is a breddy gud satire post, if only because with a post so long and needing to respond to 2-3 incorrect points per line, the amount of words needed to go against it is just too much to bother writing out, for tbh nothing

but hey if someone is willing, go for it

[FtXCommando]

The English doesn't have the errors you'd find in such a long post from someone in Eastern Europe. This is probably a guy from burger nation that just started playing.

[Wesmania]

Nobody's making a real effort to write reasoning against, so I'll try, as compactly as possible.

Build order -> will just make 2 factories the new starting BO. People will always use up existing resources to the max to get more buildpower before making economy, which will only make it harder for noobs who don't make enough factories. Also leads to way too early t2 mexes.

Micro -> mostly engine limitations. Tree clumps don't really matter much unless you play Setons exclusively.

Trajectory -> engine limitations. Any available method to do that will probably be too computationally costly.

Assassination -> makes early raids and catching enemy ACU out of position impossible. Also makes noobs accustomed to always having t1 radar, so they'll never build it in places where their ACU is not.

Snipe -> even with bonus health noob ACUs will die to 25 units. Scouting and building units are skills you need to learn. Snipes are not cheese either, completely ignoring your defenses make them seem so.

Pathfinding -> see above. You also have overcharge, which will clear out any units trying to block you.

Nukes -> already cost double the resources and 33% more time to build. If your enemy can afford the nuke and you can't affort anti a minute later, then you would lose anyway (or can't be bothered to ever scout, in which case you should also lose). Billy nuke is actually very UP for its cost.

Bombers -> Haven't seen anyone successfully micro them in many games, but seen many bomb dodges. Non-issue.

Ecosystem -> agreed.

Engies -> Engine limitations, probably. I wouldn't really like it to be always on either TBH.

Sera -> has its issues, but upsetting the balance of t1 is not a good solution.

[Guesswho]

Whether I'm a noob or not, it doesn't matter. Once you modify the game the changes apply to everybody.

If you already read the first post, beware I added two more points, called "RECLAIM" and "RECYCLING".

As I said, those changes, if adopted together, will have three effects:

1 - REDUCE MICRO. Everybody will appreciate. Noobs will improve because their limited APM won't be taxed and good players will relax and focus on the strategy.

2 - RENDER BUILD ORDERS OBSOLETE. Old players will resent it only if they are jealous of their mnemonic capital. Today players of equal rank can't play if one has a build order and the other doesn't; with these changes it won't matter anymore.

3 - EVEN THE PLAYGROUND. If the game becomes easier and less OCD-dependant, new players will like it, the pool of players will increase, and the differences in rank will become slightly less important.

@ Wesmania

BUILD ORDER: The game maps are quite standard, and you can even identify such things as "starting positions", "expansions" and, in general, "metas". If you increase the starting resources by two or three, you will obviously see new metas arise, but the starting positions will be built right away, and reclaim near the base will be reclaimed without fear of overflow, which means no build order will be needed. Expansion will be concentric and uniform, no choices will be necessary. All current maps will be playable in a competitive way with something called "generic build order", and the concept of build order will disappear. The only things to consider will be which raiding units to build and when, and even them will loose importance if players have early spam. If you can't visualize it, just sandbox it. If this leads to premature t2 mexes you can simply balance this by scaling up their cost, but I don't think it will be happen in tiny and medium maps because the additional mass is not much, and both sides will need more spam.

MICRO: Tree clumps are very important in maps that have them. Not only Setons, but also Wonder, Rohan Gap and others. The problem, however, is not the boost, but eradicating micro, or the need of "babysitting units", as somebody says. As a matter of fact, you can do the reverse and break by design every single clump in every single map, and people will simply adapt to the new reclaim values. They just won't have to order manual move and reclaim orders all over the map. The goal is to avoid this exploit, because it's annoying to do it and you are forced to do it if your adversary does.

TRAJECTORY: I don't know exactly what happens in the CPU while the game plays, but trajectories are calculated one way or the other. Preventing stupid fire solutions and choosing another target is just a Boolean line.

ASSASSINATION: Preventing untimely deaths it's exactly the point. Noobs are already segregated in their own world regardless. If you can have noobs' games last twenty minutes instead of the usual ten, they will have a chance of trying these expansions and raiding things everybody talks about.

SNIPE: This change works in tandem with the ones explained in the micro, assassination and path-finding sections. If you increase the starting spam, the ACU needs a boost to survive, whether is in his starting position or in the front.

NUKES: Nukes cost more of a previous arbitrary value. I just think it's not enough, by a long shot, and they need to be discouraged and treated like game enders, ‘cause they are. They kill the game play, lead to the famous "stagnation" phase in mid-game, reward the dominant team instead of balancing the match, and they are just boring.

BOMBERS: Heaven has a full video with that. And remember the true problem is the Ahwassa.

ECOSYSTEM: Cool

ENGIES: Let's see if the coding team can do something about it.

SERA: I suggested t1 improvements because this is the only sweetener that will appeal to newbies. Faster Selens will just give some intel to people who really need it, which means bad players. Tougher tanks won't alter the balance of a match unless it's a five minutes game, in which case it doesn't really matter. But yes, t1 factions balance is another topic.