Cyb ACU´s cloak useless

[ZeRen]

I just want to comment and say i have seen pro players (i.e. Turinturambar) use cloak mazor and kill people in base before. Most teamgames dont have omni in base btw, and hold fire so they dont see you shoot until too late is nice. I have no real say in this discussion, just wanted to add it can work.

one example of succcess, pls dont make me laugh you...

you know few weak ago I played game on Hilly, where "Doctor soviet" got maze-cloak, he did quite well (1800 or so), killed a player, but on his side and then moved in his base (I cannot guess why ehm-omni ), then he tried to defend against Exps and briks, got focus and ground fired and his HP wend down quickly, then Tried to get in his base, but he go sniped by my strats and I needed only one scout over his head

well he was lucky, that we didnt build any GC

and this is only time I saw offensive Cyb ACU in late game in my almost 1k games I played (and it wasnt even offensive, but defensive)

cloak is shit

and I told Jagged that this exactly will happen when I post it on forum, negativ comments from idiots (sry, but thats how it is) that never tried it , ah and all so didnt read my post, because it was "cloak as late game anti-snipe upgrade" and not "cloak offensive upgrade"

ah when people here cried how UEF nano is shit, everybody agree and now it is super good upgrade, but when Cloak is shit, it must be shit, because Cybran

Cyb has no early/mid/late def upgrade, only very late shit upgrade, that not worth its cost, but as I said it is Cybran so it is OK,
no Cyb has no weakness at all

[ZeRen]

You understand that you don't have much need to tank damage if you cannot be hit because you're literally invisible?

never heard of T3 scout or groud fire?

[ZLO_RD]

I know that it does not proove anything.

[biass]

negativ comments from idiots (sry, but thats how it is)

incapable of understanding scouting can be denied
calls everyone idiots

you just couldn't help but invalidate yourself, could you?

Lets requote this part, but with the truth edited in:

and I told Jagged that this exactly will happen when I post it on forum, that i will have to justify my position against my peers and i do not hold the social skills, evidence (not a single replay posted!) or respect in order to sell my opinions properly and get the change i seek in the game, im incapable of understanding counter opinions outside of my one scenario i made up in my head, leading me to falsely believe that everyone else besides me has not read my argument; i also am unaware that this is both a logical fallacy and a cop out answer, because i am incapable of properly answering the concerns, i am also unaware of the fluid nature of what is a video game and do not believe items can be used in a number of different ways, and how editing one scenario may effect another.

You are aware you had a large uphill battle ahead of you when you made this topic, right?
People for a long time fervently believed cybran was without many weaknesses, and spurred a lot of whoring (the faction in ranked games) among the playerbase
Now, with a somewhat creative nerf from the balance noodle, cybran is considered to be "balanced" despite having a lot of its powerful tools (wagners, etc) untouched
and then you, a guy with cybran plastered over his identity, wants to come in and then further remove another of cybrans only weaknesses.
instead of selling to us, why this was a good idea, you go on a hardly legible insult charade. maybe this is why nothing gets done?

maybe the UEF nano got a buff because the people wanting it buffed made A: a proper case, with replays. and B: didnt spew insults and hypocrisy? (TGuy makes a case, you blow it off as being "only one case" and then you make "only one case" to support your side and that is fine?

It's embarrassing, dude.

[This_Guy]

I just want to comment and say i have seen pro players (i.e. Turinturambar) use cloak mazor and kill people in base before. Most teamgames dont have omni in base btw, and hold fire so they dont see you shoot until too late is nice. I have no real say in this discussion, just wanted to add it can work.

one example of succcess, pls dont make me laugh you...

Please note I did say i have no real say it this topic. I dont have much of an opinion one way or another. But you said you never see it used... i said i have... and you dismissed it? Thats not really great discussion. I have seen turin do it more than once, soviet pride i saw do it a dozen times when he was playing just a few months ago. Im not saying its not underused/under power or w/e. Just that i HAVE seen people use it, where you say its never used. So please dont mock me, im not abusing you or anything, just making a comment to the discussion.

Thank you.

[Franck83]

so I talked about this with Jagged and he told me to write on forum...

so why is cloak bad?
- super expensive
- give only 15k HP
- omni reveal ACU model (not show it is radar blip, like you know mole under radar)
- drain -3000 e
- can be targeted

I thinking about to release true invisibility ability in my mod for rogue unit class. It seems that there is a setmesh off possibility in the engine. We can hide the strategic icon too. Don't tried it yet but i think we can do it (although it seems to be more a hack than a GPG planned feature).

Because of this topic, i wanna have your opinion with the possibility to make two level of invisibility :

Level one.
- True invisibility (no mesh / no icon / no radar) unit that can be manualy actived. So it can be seen or targeted until the unit move or fire. So a move reveal the unit. Maybe we can add a manual reveal ability with some radius to some units.

Level Two (Advanced invisibilty ability)
- True invisibility (no mesh / no icon / no radar) unit that can be manualy actived. So it can't be seen or targeted until the unit fire. Maybe we can add a manual reveal ability with some radius to some units. here too.

Maybe we can add the possibility for higher cloaked level units to see lower cloacked unit level (the battle for invisibility )

[FtXCommando]

Can't make a unit totally invisible otherwise Cybran players will get the upgrade and go afk after they lose and wait for their opponent to quit out of frustration at the fact their ACU is not possible to find without groundfiring every part of the map.

[Franck83]

Adding a track feature so an arrow points to the ACU direction without revealing its position ? so then you send rogue or cast the reveal ability

[FtXCommando]

Personally I don't see the idea doing anything besides pissing off everyone in the game because they have cloaked units raiding their mexes and they cant do anything against the units while the units just sit waiting for engies to rebuild. It's not introducing anything fun or strategic to the game.

Also, there's a policy against adding new units unless they are 100% totally necessary so your best bet is to see if you could get people to help you make a mod for this.

[Steel_Panther]

Can't make a unit totally invisible otherwise Cybran players will get the upgrade and go afk after they lose and wait for their opponent to quit out of frustration at the fact their ACU is not possible to find without groundfiring every part of the map.

Maybe...kill their pgens?

The question is definitely not whether or not cloak is weak, it is...it's whether buffing it makes cybran too strong overall.

Biass, I think it's not possible to prove a negative case like this, the way you want...."with replays." People almost never use it because it's nowhere near worth the cost. I have seen probably a hundred mazor coms, but only maybe 3 cloaked coms. Shall I show you a replay where someone didn't build it then? How many replays where a cybran player didn't build cloak will be sufficient for you?

It's obviously implied in the argument that buffing something of Cybran wouldn't make it op. Maybe it would be then, but as it stands it seems pretty useless because of t3 scouts and GCs.