Cybran late-game buff

Moderator: JaggedAppliance

Cybran late-game buff

Postby DeadMG » 17 Mar 2017, 19:59

Kinda feeling lately that in the late game, Cybran really suffers.

  • Their T3 art can't even reach the enemy base. Not only are they the only ones without a game ender, they're the only ones without a game starter. Recommend give the Disruptor the same range as the Aeon t3 art. Then it might possibly be useful.
  • Their shields are the worst- even after the buffs the Cybran ED5 is just the UEF T3 shield but more expensive with a smaller range that's much more awkward to build. Recommend in this case that Cybran shields should have the shields from *all* of their stages simultaneously (maybe with a small cost increase), or, they should recharge substantially faster than the shields of other factions. If Cybran structures had special resilience, it might be fine to not change the shields.
  • Their T3 navy has nothing to recommend- the only thing even close to useful is the HARMS which is easily countered by ground fire. Battleship is cheap but not tremendously dangerous- having a short range is the biggest killer. All the other navies have powerful units- tempest, subhunter, and shield boat, to which Cybran has no answer.
  • Their ACU protection options are pretty weak. The cloak and stealth is nice but everybody knows to just spam t3 scouts. It's true that they are the only ones with telemaser, but all the other factions have another ability- UEF can have both RAS and shield, and Sera/Aeon get double RAS, on top of being able to give their ACU actual durability. The trouble with the whole cloak/stealth mechanic is that it's really binary- bad players can get flattened by it because they don't know what to do, and good players just ignore it because it's easy to beat with t3 scouts. Recommend nerf omni range on t3 scouts. Also recommend increase stealth cost and grant more of the hp to the stealth upgrade.
  • Structure HP randomly nerfed, and this was to the faction with by far the worst shields? The regeneration is just not very useful since the structures have so little HP, they're easily killed and therefore cannot regenerate. Perhaps a free slow rebuild would be a better mechanic. The other thing that comes to mind is if Cybran structures could move slowly, somewhat akin to lifting off as Terran.
  • T2 PD- still nearly useless. Why is the only PD that can't reliably hit things also the lowest DPS by far? If anything it should have far higher DPS than the other t2 PDs, since they can mostly hit reliably. Sera t2pd has a similar issue but managed to avoid random DPS nerfs in addition.

I kinda feel like in many of these cases, the Cybran buildings/units are just worse with no tradeoffs involved. Cybran shields for instance are just flat out the worst shields with nothing in return. Cybran structure health is the worst with nothing in return. Contrast this with e.g. ACU upgrade balance. UEF can have protection and, RAS, Aeon and Sera can choose between protection and double RAS, and Cybran can choose RAS or telemaser or protection. None of these are worse (except for the part where Cybran protection just doesn't work very well at all, especially at T2).

Frankly, I'd be happy if some Cybran things became carbon copies, e.g. T3 arty. Having faction difference is only useful if the differences are actually useful.
DeadMG
Crusader
 
Posts: 27
Joined: 09 Aug 2013, 19:58
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 0 time
FAF User Name: DeadMG

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby Nepty » 17 Mar 2017, 21:11

Yeah, Cybran tech 3 is a little strange. I think FAF should buff their strategic missiles. Increase EMP duration to 30 seconds.

Unfortunately that's the only idea I have at this time. I have to do more research on Cybran's tech 3.

The balance people will know what to do.
User avatar
Nepty
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 213
Joined: 01 Jul 2016, 10:09
Location: America | Florida | Miami
Has liked: 66 times
Been liked: 56 times
FAF User Name: Sapphire

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby PhilipJFry » 17 Mar 2017, 21:30

  • Yes their T3 Arty is worse in most situations than other T3 arties.
  • Their Shields have the advantage that they ragain all shield hp after an upgrade. Imho they are ok.
  • Their Battleships are the most cost efficient and their nukesubs are the best. Lategame Navy is pretty well balanced at this point.
  • Cloak on the ACU is amazing.
  • I thought we are talking about lategame stuff
  • If you make t2 pd in lategame you might want to reconsider your choices.

Lately i get the feeling again that some stuff should be posted as a question in the strategy/tactics subforum or help subforum and not here.
cats>dogs
post logs
User avatar
PhilipJFry
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 2635
Joined: 23 Mar 2016, 21:16
Location: Austria
Has liked: 232 times
Been liked: 348 times
FAF User Name: PhilipJFry

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby Iszh » 17 Mar 2017, 21:34

Their t3 is normal cant see anything strange but they dont have a gameender i told this before ... viewtopic.php?f=67&t=14168
User avatar
Iszh
Evaluator
 
Posts: 827
Joined: 26 Apr 2012, 08:51
Has liked: 116 times
Been liked: 126 times
FAF User Name: Iszh

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby Nepty » 17 Mar 2017, 22:01

....
....

Make scathis great again. I remember when that unit was scary, then FAF happened to it...
It went something like this: "let's make it cheap, amphibious, and reduce the range to poop."
That was Cybran's game ender in ancient history. So I'm guessing it doesn't fill that role anymore?
Original join Date: August 21, 2012 | Original FAF account: Cybrankiller | Highest skill rating: 1780
Favorite map: Vale of Isis | Favorite faction: UEF | Favorite opponent: Anaryl | Favorite pro: Chosen
User avatar
Nepty
Avatar-of-War
 
Posts: 213
Joined: 01 Jul 2016, 10:09
Location: America | Florida | Miami
Has liked: 66 times
Been liked: 56 times
FAF User Name: Sapphire

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby ZeRen » 18 Mar 2017, 00:58

PhilipJFry wrote:[*]Their Shields have the advantage that they ragain all shield hp after an upgrade. Imho they are ok.


if you use them in normal way then they are ok, but you wanna use them to defend againt T3 arty rather get other faction T3 engy

why? because ED1-ED-3 cover nothing, if you try to build them you lose arty before you get ED4 (and it has small cover area too), not to mention that it is incredibly annoying to upgrade them

dont believe me? try it then

make ED4 build from Tech3
User avatar
ZeRen
Evaluator
 
Posts: 641
Joined: 03 Aug 2014, 08:22
Has liked: 154 times
Been liked: 49 times
FAF User Name: ZeRen

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby IceDreamer » 18 Mar 2017, 04:23

Regarding Cybran shields, I'd like to either make ED4 buildable OR make the final ED5 upgrade MUCH more expensive and inefficient, but result in the game's strongest static shield.
IceDreamer
Supreme Commander
 
Posts: 2607
Joined: 27 Dec 2011, 07:01
Has liked: 138 times
Been liked: 488 times

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby Mycen » 18 Mar 2017, 07:23

Nepty wrote:....
....

Make scathis great again. I remember when that unit was scary, then FAF happened to it...
It went something like this: "let's make it cheap, amphibious, and reduce the range to poop."
That was Cybran's game ender in ancient history. So I'm guessing it doesn't fill that role anymore?


You wanna talk ancient history, the Scathis's current stats are in line with what it was back in vanilla.
Mycen
Evaluator
 
Posts: 514
Joined: 12 Feb 2013, 03:20
Has liked: 12 times
Been liked: 40 times
FAF User Name: Mycen

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby DeadMG » 18 Mar 2017, 17:02

That's not really comparable, since the UEF were the only ones with their own game-ender then. Now Sera and Aeon also have one. But personally I am more concerned about the T3 arty being awful.

For the lategame, the structure health is pretty critical. For instance, the Cybran t3 arty can one-shot Cybran T3 pgens (say, around somebody else's t3 arty, right next to their shield generators, etc), but not UEF T3 pgens.

As for T2PD, I wouldn't actively build it. But it can retain utility.
Last edited by DeadMG on 18 Mar 2017, 18:07, edited 1 time in total.
DeadMG
Crusader
 
Posts: 27
Joined: 09 Aug 2013, 19:58
Has liked: 0 time
Been liked: 0 time
FAF User Name: DeadMG

Re: Cybran late-game buff

Postby TheKoopa » 18 Mar 2017, 17:14

Cybran has the best exp (megalith) so why also a game ender? :D
Feather: I am usually pretty good in judging people's abilities, intelligence and motives

Evildrew: Just because I didnt choose you for my team last year doesnt give you the right to be all bitchy and negative about my proposal
User avatar
TheKoopa
Contributor
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: 04 Sep 2013, 18:04
Location: New York
Has liked: 172 times
Been liked: 225 times
FAF User Name: Gently-


Return to Balance Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest