The Novax

[Endranii]

Just another idea but what about granting it high alpha dmg just enough to destroy t3 mex with long realod time(while having low dmg against shields) so it can function as pin point bombardment tool for destroying unshielded targets? And small dmg against shields so you actually have a way other than detroying the novaxcentre to counter it?

[Gorton]

Just another idea but what about granting it high alpha dmg just enough to destroy t3 mex with long realod time(while having low dmg against shields) so it can function as pin point bombardment tool for destroying unshielded targets?

Likely this would be too op in conjunction with arty, or just additional novax. You'd be able to punch through shields, and then destroy the shields. When they are down... well, you aren't going to be able to rebuild under arty fire.

[galacticfear]

Yes, in my opinion you need to turn your attention away from the concept of novax being able to do any kind of significant damage, and instead consider potential utility options to make it useful, such as jamming as Gorton mentioned.

[Mycen]

xD Why so aggressive? Mobile SMD is not a bad idea if that is possible. And I disagree that a sat is currently a mass efficient way to spend your economy in any way. Both Novax and T3 arty can be countered by not too many shields, if you somehow have 100K mass lying around you are better off considering a mavor... I don't get a novax for any purpose other than for trolling anymore.

And I didn't say keep it the same, nerfed laser with strong intel. It is nothing inspiring or creative, but I don't think it is a bad idea, and I would definitely see much more scenarios to use it.

Setons should be the prime kind of map to use a Novax being 20km and spread out, but it just isn't.

You think that's aggressive? Nah, I'm just having a good time, and I like the Novax, it's a cool unit with a nice model and great attack effect. I would rather see it stay a niche unit than become a unit that's built every game but boring - T4 scout plane is just really lame, sorry. (Not saying that was what you suggested, just pointing it out.) You're right to compare Novax and T3 arty since they're functionally pretty much the same, with a nice dose of complementary features. But, as you point out, the issue isn't so much that they are bad as that a Mavor is just better, without costing much more. If the Novax were a Cybran unit instead of a UEF one we wouldn't even be having this conversation. (We also wouldn't have the thread about lack of Cybran game-enders.)

Mobile SMD would be a cool and fitting idea in theory, but not in execution. It'd just get parked over enemy nuke launchers, which would be lame. You have to make it immobile and/or work in some way to counter it, and it would require a total rework. Not worth it.

Your ideas are fine, it just that for all the talk about how useless it is, it doesn't really seem like you're suggesting changes. Nerf the laser? It already does next to no damage. Its intel stats could use a buff for sure, but one advantage it already has is that you can track targets (ACU in particular) wherever they go just by issuing an attack command. I'm all for incremental changes in general, and totally for buffing the novax's support abilities. I just am curious about why you would say that the unit is nothing but a troll unit, then go on to say that it can be made good with only a few minor buffs.

Back when I had been on faf for about 2 days, I made a similar thread, and mycen called me a noob ^^ years later, he is still 1200 or something
don't mind him. He knows nothing, and certainly doesn't realise how shit the unit is.

I cannot believe when anyone can say a unit is fine when it is built in 1/1000 games, and even then it's usually built to troll.


As for novax, I support any suggestions that make it a unit worth building. Intel-focus would certainly fit that, or even a way of killing buildpower like suggested.

My own personal desire it to turn it into the mother of all jamming fields.

I'm surprised to see that level of butthurt from you, I wouldn't expect you to remember trash talk from a nobody like me literally years later. As expected though, no response to my points, just shit-talking about how I have a life outside vintage computer games. You can talk about how the Novax sucks, but you're only as right as someone playing on gpgnet in 2012 about how MMLs suck. The Novax isn't any shittier than T3 arty, which in and of itself is only 'useless' because by the time strats become ineffective there is so much reclaim available that you can jump right into Mavors.

Adding a strong jamming feature is a good idea though.

[Gorton]

Back when I had been on faf for about 2 days, I made a similar thread, and mycen called me a noob ^^ years later, he is still 1200 or something
don't mind him. He knows nothing, and certainly doesn't realise how shit the unit is.

I cannot believe when anyone can say a unit is fine when it is built in 1/1000 games, and even then it's usually built to troll.


As for novax, I support any suggestions that make it a unit worth building. Intel-focus would certainly fit that, or even a way of killing buildpower like suggested.

My own personal desire it to turn it into the mother of all jamming fields.

I'm surprised to see that level of butthurt from you, I wouldn't expect you to remember trash talk from a nobody like me literally years later. As expected though, no response to my points, just shit-talking about how I have a life outside vintage computer games. You can talk about how the Novax sucks, but you're only as right as someone playing on gpgnet in 2012 about how MMLs suck. The Novax isn't any shittier than T3 arty, which in and of itself is only 'useless' because by the time strats become ineffective there is so much reclaim available that you can jump right into Mavors.

Adding a strong jamming feature is a good idea though.

When people say this, I am often surprised. Memory is a funny thing - I certainly don't recall things most of the time, but when the same topic comes up with the same person responding, memory tells me this has happened before... do you recall what happened 2 years ago on new years eve? You didn't probably recall until I asked. Now you probably do remember.

I can talk about how the novax sucks because it does.
It is (almost) never used. Half the time it is used, it's a trolling method.

Saying it works well with t3 arty is essentially saying damage works with t3 arty.
Just make another t3 arty is what I would say. Splash damage and consistent firerate + less space (more easily defendable) etc etc
This is only really challenged if you're going to come out and say "but its good on 40x40 map" like you said last time, and I repeat

I cannot believe when anyone can say a unit is fine when it is built in 1/1000 games, and even then it's usually built to troll.

I guess it would be fine if eye of rhinne cost 50k energy to operate- it would work on 40x40 maps, so its ok right?

which in and of itself is only 'useless' because by the time strats become ineffective there is so much reclaim available that you can jump right into Mavors.

What kind of games are you playing again?

[Evan_]

Saying you can only build a Novax when you're ahead is nonsense - it's equivalent in cost to a fatboy, a relatively small late-game cost, one which can easily be recouped in a battle with a little good unit management. It most certainly is a great pair with T3 arty, and is also a good cleanup unit.

I don't know what kind of opponents you're playing with, but recouping 28000 mass isn't easy, especially when you already start the fight down an experimental.

I also disagree with Novax being a niche unit. I would like to hear a situation where Novax even has a niche.

The laser changes I suggested isn't just some nerf I concocted to try and justify it's lower cost. As mentioned earlier I want novax to have it's laser equipped to destroy groups of t1 engineers. In fact, the novax might do even more damage in this position because now it is able to come out a lot earlier in the game. Sure Novax will mainly take up the role of a t4 scout, but I don't see that as a problem seeing as that's what it already does. The current Novax just relies too much on your opponent being less skilled or behind. It relies on them not overwhelming you enough to stay alive, then relies on them turtling in a wierd way where they remember to build tons of sams, but not tons of shields.

The dynamic of attacking engineers and forcing your opponent to repay the satelite's cost by building shields and attacking engineers is way more exciting than any "Special ability" IMO. Supcom isn't about the gimmicks anyways.

[biass]

Mobile SMD would be a cool and fitting idea in theory, but not in execution. It'd just get parked over enemy nuke launchers, which would be lame.

this is why noone takes you seriously
stop being a detriment to game balance because you want to attempt to be a faf hipster by making novax

ideas: omni in a huge radius (make stealth fields work with buildings first)
ion pulse (emp)
t1 unit drop pods
muh mobile soothsayer
make it a stupidly long reload but give it a huge independence day weapon (perhaps low dmg but huge aoe

else, sage

[AdmiralZeech]

I just want the beam to stay on 100% of the time. The reload period really annoys me.

[FtXCommando]

I just want the beam to stay on 100% of the time. The reload period really annoys me.

You know that would make novax a practical game-ender because no amount of shields would ever stop it?

[Evan_]

True, Novax would become unstoppable, at least with current dps figure given.

If the shield regen is higher than dps it shouble be able to stand up to novax even with constant fire. I thought about this but I really don't like it as it encourages camping in one spot because any move order is preventing you from firing (And assuming old values for cost, the novax needs a lot of that constant beam time to fire).

The long recharge high damage/aoe is an interesting idea, (though I'd appreaciate some ballpark figures).

T1 drop pods are great, but the ability to turn novax into a ghetto gunship would be even better.