UEF T3 battleship summit

[TheKoopa]

Sorry IceDreamer but they really don't.
Galaxy has the same buildtime as a BC, costs 54k vs 60k energy and 8k vs 7k mass.
The difference in HP and range is huge though, 47k vs 22k and 128 vs 80!

And no, shields don't help, they're only 8k hitpoints and they cost 1,3k mass and 13k energy plus they have a constant e-cost of 150.
Besides, then cybran should be allowed to have the stealth boats/sonar with them and that's far better since it prevents you from microing the BCs if you want to keep firing.

@biass:
The aeon destroyer actually has longer effective range than the BC does because of how the mechanics work in this game, you can kite BCs with aeon destroyers(plus t2 hover shields are OP as ****.)

Well lets clear some things up.

First of all the very purpose of the battle cruiser is to shield summits from destroyers and frigates, and they do this extremely well. Destroyers are no competition for them.

Also bc and exodus have same range so also wrong.

However battlecruisers cannot stand up to t3 ships, as they are not meant for that purpose. You have summits for that.

[IceDreamer]

It may be different up the top ranks where kiting is perfect, but once a BC gets in range of a BS it's over.

To put things into perspective, the BC costs 7000 mass and has 626.8 DPS, of which 0 is wasted. The most powerful direct-combat BS is the Aeon, with 9000 mass for 508.5 DPS. The Galaxy is 8000 mass for 450 DPS. They have more range, and more HP, but if the kiting isn't perfect and they can get into range, you should be able to dodge their shots and tear them to bits with that insane DPS.

Koopa's right though, the ship is designed for taking out T2/T1. I was just making the point that Summit's aren't the same kind of beast as the other BSs, like everything UEF you've got to mix your units nicely.

[Viba]

IceDreamer your first statement about the battlecruiser and summit vs bs is just wrong on so many levels. Sure sometimes if a UEF player pushes in with 2-3 battlecruisers and a few shields at the perfect time, they can do good and even win. Otherwise just no

Hands down galaxy spam vs bc spam.

[Mel_Gibson]

BCs do wreck battleships......probably....if you have way beyond god tier apm and micro.

And a Summit is totally useless.....by itself. But, imho, nobody should be assessing a Summit on it's own. UEF navy is heavily dependant on composition and timing of aggression/defence, and if you get that spot on then:

You will not stop the UEF!

Perhaps the summit is lacking on smaller maps where you can't really use the range, but i would have thought that would be compensated by less of a disadvantage at the t2 stage and a bigger advantage at the very early T3 BC stage. But i'm only a setons pleb, so idk.

[TheKoopa]

In naval maps that are not sentons the moment you get a bc the game is over, you just won navy. They just dominate destroyers I really doubt the opponent will get a bs in time to counter it if you play it properly.

Besides the fact that you usually get a 2nd and a 3rd bc like 10 seconds after your first

[Um ZiniZini]

In naval maps that are not sentons the moment you get a bc the game is over, you just won navy. They just dominate destroyers I really doubt the opponent will get a bs in time to counter it if you play it properly.

Besides the fact that you usually get a 2nd and a 3rd bc like 10 seconds after your first

yes i agree totally, they wreck destroyers and cost 7000 mass, coopers/frigates + bulwarks + battlecruisers wreck almost anything, but can we do something about the summit that costs 10500 mass and have a very slow fire rate that misses a lot of the time due to cheap right click micro. as i said i believe its only for shooting bases, tempests and battleships.

[Nepty]

Maybe a projectile speed boost can help the Summit class. Heavy Gauss cannons they say? UEF has the slowest Gauss cannons and rail guns I ever seen in science fiction.

Examples in other universes
Halo: A super MAC gun fires a shell at the velocity of 750,000 kilometers a second. It's a giant magnetic weapon.

Quake 2: The railgun instantly hits a target with a uranium slug.

Eraser movie: These railguns fires a aluminum round at an extreme velocity. Can be used to snipe tank pilots.

Ace combat 5: The EML ( Electro-Magnetic Launcher) instantly hit a target with deadly accuracy. (By the way UEF Cyclones use the same weapon. They just call them 'railguns'.)

Real life: Giant magnets are use to accelerate a projectile so fast, it ignite the oxygen in its path. The rail gun is so large only a battleship could mount it.

To be real honest all UEF railguns and Gauss weaponry should fire at a near instant velocity. Similar to Cybran's original particle beams (Cerberus and Rhino tank lasers). Seraphim's Tech 3 AA battery is a good example on how railguns should fire in Supcom FA.

As for the Summit class and Fatboy, those bullets move too slow to be Gauss weaponry. Just saying.

[JoonasTo]

In naval maps that are not sentons the moment you get a bc the game is over, you just won navy. They just dominate destroyers I really doubt the opponent will get a bs in time to counter it if you play it properly.

Besides the fact that you usually get a 2nd and a 3rd bc like 10 seconds after your first

So.

Neptune needs a T3 factory.
Galaxy needs a T3 factory.

Neptune has a buildtime of 25.2k
Galaxy has a buildtime of 25.2k

How exactly doesn't he have time to build one?

It may be different up the top ranks where kiting is perfect, but once a BC gets in range of a BS it's over.

To put things into perspective, the BC costs 7000 mass and has 626.8 DPS, of which 0 is wasted. The most powerful direct-combat BS is the Aeon, with 9000 mass for 508.5 DPS. The Galaxy is 8000 mass for 450 DPS. They have more range, and more HP, but if the kiting isn't perfect and they can get into range, you should be able to dodge their shots and tear them to bits with that insane DPS.

Right, let's math then. It takes 75 seconds for a BC to kill a Galaxy. It takes 55 seconds for the Galaxy to kill a Neptune. 136% effectiveness for 114% price. Galaxy is just plain better. Even without the range.

And if you have a game where players know how to dodge battleship shots, they sure know how to kite with battleships. After all, it's one click behind your own lines vs constant micro with angle limitations amongst other ships.

@biass:
The aeon destroyer actually has longer effective range than the BC does because of how the mechanics work in this game, you can kite BCs with aeon destroyers(plus t2 hover shields are OP as ****.)

Also bc and exodus have same range so also wrong.

You see, effective range, is different than the range in the stats page. Both Exodus and Neptune have a target acquisition range of 80. That is, once a target enters that range, they start aiming at it. After this point they differ.

The Neptune has a direct fire weapon, that has an absolute range of 80. If the target is still in range after it finishes aiming with the cannons(independent aiming, some cannons take longer so not full alpha.) If it is not, it will not fire. This means a maximum effective range of 80.

The Exodus, however, has no such limitation. If target is in range, they start aiming, while leading the target if moving and fire(one-shot, full alpha.) If the target leaves range after target acquisition, say both Exodus and the target are moving away from each other fullsteam(like a kiting Neptune, for example,) it still aims while leading the target, and fires. This can lead to a hit well beyond the stated maximum range of 80. This means an effective range longer than 80. Even 90 is possible.

[IceDreamer]

The Exodus, however, has no such limitation. If target is in range, they start aiming, while leading the target if moving and fire(one-shot, full alpha.) If the target leaves range after target acquisition, say both Exodus and the target are moving away from each other fullsteam(like a kiting Neptune, for example,) it still aims while leading the target, and fires. This can lead to a hit well beyond the stated maximum range of 80. This means an effective range longer than 80. Even 90 is possible.

This is completely incorrect. MaxRadius is the maximum distance at which the two things can be for the weapon to fire. Exodus's target acquisition radius is larger than 80 (1.15*80 to be exact). It's possible a slight illusion is formed because the Exodus's cannons have a charge time, so the weapon 'fires' (In 80 range) a short time before the projectile actually fires (Unit might be out of 80 range by now). FYI BC has a target acquisition range of 80*1.125

[Um ZiniZini]

Maybe a projectile speed boost can help the Summit class. Heavy Gauss cannons they say? UEF has the slowest Gauss cannons and rail guns I ever seen in science fiction.

Examples in other universes
Halo: A super MAC gun fires a shell at the velocity of 750,000 kilometers a second. It's a giant magnetic weapon.

Quake 2: The railgun instantly hits a target with a uranium slug.

Eraser movie: These railguns fires a aluminum round at an extreme velocity. Can be used to snipe tank pilots.

Ace combat 5: The EML ( Electro-Magnetic Launcher) instantly hit a target with deadly accuracy. (By the way UEF Cyclones use the same weapon. They just call them 'railguns'.)

Real life: Giant magnets are use to accelerate a projectile so fast, it ignite the oxygen in its path. The rail gun is so large only a battleship could mount it.

To be real honest all UEF railguns and Gauss weaponry should fire at a near instant velocity. Similar to Cybran's original particle beams (Cerberus and Rhino tank lasers). Seraphim's Tech 3 AA battery is a good example on how railguns should fire in Supcom FA.

As for the Summit class and Fatboy, those bullets move too slow to be Gauss weaponry. Just saying.

This all makes very sense to me, faster projectiles would mean its harder to dodge and faster damage output by a small degree.