Balance Patch 3674 Feedback Thread

[Morax]

morax you won't be able to kite on 6515456 km like this on normal game though

EXACTLY, which is icedreamer and theoretical testing in sandbox should be forbidden and disallowed to make changes.

[Kalvirox]

For reference, I stopped playing for a combination of reasons. Not solely because of balance.

[IceDreamer]

morax you won't be able to kite on 6515456 km like this on normal game though

EXACTLY, which is icedreamer and theoretical testing in sandbox should be forbidden and disallowed to make changes.

For reference, I don't sandbox balance except to test code changes, none of this lot are any of my decision, and all I'm trying to do is make sure all avenues are explored.
Simply nerfing T3 buildtime is just as valid an approach to me as what I said, as is nerfing T3 to T2's level. All should be looked at.

So Morax, if you'd be so kind as to stop jumping down my throat and play fair? Hmm?

[Morax]

Fine, I just don't like all the complicated ideas flowing in when it could be a couple simple things rather this laundry list.

Fair play...

[Morax]

For reference, I stopped playing for a combination of reasons. Not solely because of balance.

Well it's a pretty big player in why you left, no? Please explain. EG i know for sure Gorton has too much disdain for bal and does not play because of it.

[Kalvirox]

I just got bored of the game and the fact that my skill deteriorated but my rating did not. When the ladder seasons idea comes in I'll be back for a long time, until then. Yes balance is an issue but it's not a sole reason.

Anyway, that's enough off topic for one forum thread.

[Iszh]

I like the patch! Just fun to see at least some changes from time to time

I watched Ythota rofl nice buff.

[Plasma_Wolf]

Stop over-complicating everything. t3 should wreck t2, as t2 should wreck t1. If you nerf it you will have to experiment forever.

I can't determine who left the game and because of what, but this should be number one on your list.

DONT make things more complicated than really necessary.

As for the T3 being so powerful over T2. If you want to see a T2 stage, making the T3 stage less accessible because of increased upgrade costs and build time seems a sensible and effective thing to do. If you want to mess with stats of units, fine, but check the simple things first.

[Sovietpride]

T3 issue?

Make t2 land units cheaper/ faster.

Make t3 hQ units need more power.

Needing more power- needs more of an economy/increases the duration of vulnerability before the first t3 unit is out, and requiring sustained increased income for production also results in vulnerabilities to be exploited (Lel weaker pgen patch)


Making t2 land cheaper and faster probably would help the most. Issue is currently by the time t2 land units can reach anywhere of significance in significant enough numbers that t3 land can be there to defend without too much difficulty.


Haven't played balance patch yet.
Awaiting the bombers that kill everything.

[angus000]

The thing with T2 land being underused is... It's so expensive to set up a spam production for them that by the time you have the eco for it, you're enemy already has T3, where the second problem arrives: T3 rush units are so efficient against T1 and T2 that they don't have any window time to pay themselves.

This is way more complex a problem given that factions are balanced in a way that each one has a clear disadvantage in some tiers and they are forced to keep that phase as short as possible.

The advantage aeon and cybran obtain in the t1 phase plus the enemy T2 being so expensive and vulnerable to overcharge is what has set the loya/harb rush meta.

Imo, the way teirs work for each faction should remain the same, while we still make it so that a lot more of T2 action is seen. No, making T3 more expensive will only get cybran and aeon killed because it will mess with the power balance between factions. So we either:

1. Delay T3 making it more expensive but buff rhinos and obsidians to compensate. This way the game flow and power balance will be the same, but with more T2 in the middle.

Or

2. Make T3 way weaker, so the transition from T2 to T3 becomes smoother, like T1 to T2 currently is.

Fortunately, the first solution has already been applied several times in the past, so we can learn from that.
Recently, T3 air has seen its cost and build time increased to make T1 and T2 air more relevant. It didn't work. Then you tried nerfing ras so that, again, T3 would be delayed. And again, it didn't work.
However, it was also applied to try and nerf T2 land rushes some patches ago and... It worked! (As far as I am aware). The reason being that there is a good balance of power between T1 land and T2, something that it's just no true for T3 land and of course it's even worse for asfs.

My conclusion is that both solutions must be applied: we want the next tier units to be just a little stronger (so the difference in power takes time to stack and thus ensuring a smoother transition) AND having the correct costs in price and build time so the timings are exactly the ones we want (not too early, not too late).

Then it becomes too obvious that asfs are way too op in tiers' power reference, so much so that messing with their cost (aka how fast they appear) should be really fucked up to compensate for their tier power. Most likely they would need to appear by min 19 (in air spot team games) just to not be so op, i can't even imagine how much we would need to rise their cost to achieve that, instead of just making them less powerful.