Thoughts about Balance

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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby Mel_Gibson » 21 Sep 2016, 13:08

This thread finally dying? What a great time to stop by, shitpost, and just generally disagree with everybody.
crispyambulance wrote:The power structure is less important than the changes it produces.

I think agree with this though. This has much less to do with power structure and everything to do with the direction Zock has taken (whether he ever had a mandate to take this direction is an entirely separate but equally important issue).

Visionik is a busy man and the balance of the game may go over his head, but as FAF is his investment, I think he should endorse Zock or make a stance on this as quickly as possible. Or appoint people he trusts to do so. Having this go on any longer, with the prospect of balance changes being reverted, is unnecessarily disruptive and a waste of time for absolutely everyone, particularly for those who have been working on the current balance patch. Waiting until there is a player Councillor/s to try and help sort this out is a time buying and responsibility shifting cop-out. How a player Councillor will even gather any more of a consensus than this cluster is certainly beyond me. What visionik or the person/s he appoints decide is best for FAF, and how they arrive at that decision, is entirely up to them. But a decision needs to be made.

(I personally think a huge stumbling block for FAF in situations like this is the total lack of in your face feedback mechanisms for the majority of the community. We have no authoritarian figure and no comprehensive feedback for informed discussion)

On the team of 5 equals. While this is a really cute idea, I'm not sure it is a good one. I suspect there is a reason that pretty much everywhere you look in life teams always have a leader. Anything else is usually pretty ineffective, especially when we consider this is voluntary and you have no obligation to stay if out voted. Being able to hold a leader responsible is one perk that is being quite nicely demonstrated here. I would have much more respect for Blackheart if he put himself forward as a leader, with or without a team, as he had done in the past. If he wishes to run it as fully democratic team with elected members while also being held accountable by the whiners for the decisions that produces, more power to him. Anything else looks to me like a cheap appeal to dissatisfaction in an attempt to veto Zock without being willing to take up the same commitment Zock has shown. Could be wrong but it looks like Blackheart has basically admitted as much.

TL:DR Yo! Powers that be! Plikz make a decision on this pronto!

Full disclosers: I'd probably support a BH team. Don't like the patch. Think we should deport Zock to Supcom 2 and have him pay for a firewall.
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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby ClockworkAlex » 23 Sep 2016, 05:04

Even though I agree with what BH is saying here. I dont hink his opinion should carry any more weight then anyone elses. Maybe even less considering he has been inactive for a couuple months now. No one else around here comes close to the amount of work Zock puts in and I as well as most of the community really appreciate that.
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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 23 Sep 2016, 10:19

ClockworkAlex wrote:No one else around here comes close to the amount of work Zock puts in


Haha :-D
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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby Apofenas » 23 Sep 2016, 11:30

ClockworkAlex wrote:No one else around here comes close to the amount of work Zock puts in and I as well as most of the community really appreciate that.

I'm sure Ithilis put more time and effort in single unit in Equilibrium than Zock with his balance team put in latest patches overall.
BalanceVictim wrote:I tried it out, and yes, the anti-torpedo is a useful tool now. Sadly, the rest of the unit is still extremely weak compared to any other frig
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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby biass » 23 Sep 2016, 11:49

And bragging like this is why i dont want EQ as the official game mode ^.^
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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby Zock » 23 Sep 2016, 12:24

Apofenas wrote:
ClockworkAlex wrote:No one else around here comes close to the amount of work Zock puts in and I as well as most of the community really appreciate that.

I'm sure Ithilis put more time and effort in single unit in Equilibrium than Zock with his balance team put in latest patches overall.


hundreds of hours into a single unit :shock:
gg no re

ohh! what a pretty shining link! https://www.youtube.com/c/Zockyzock
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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby Exotic_Retard » 23 Sep 2016, 12:29

well i dunno what you were thinking but sera acu tml upgrade (that was way back in early 2015) got at least 60 hours so if we look at all the other upgrades we worked on in there, i would say 200 hours at a stretch is pretty likely, but lets say 150 for a conservative estimate.

other interesting cases include the tempest which took about a week of work
harms, similar story
mongooses which had several 8 hour days of tests

well thats just off the top of my head, but pretty sure the point stands

although i dont think thats super important, its just an indicator of us being thorough.
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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby Mad`Mozart » 23 Sep 2016, 12:33

There's no turning back now. Someone has to make FA equilibrium lobby.
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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby Zock » 23 Sep 2016, 13:03

Exotic_Retard wrote:well i dunno what you were thinking but sera acu tml upgrade (that was way back in early 2015) got at least 60 hours so if we look at all the other upgrades we worked on in there, i would say 200 hours at a stretch is pretty likely, but lets say 150 for a conservative estimate.


Just wondering how 150 hours per change can go together with the promise of "quick and regular patches". A patch every month with as little as 5 changes would take.. 25 hours per day. (And thats not taking into account that a larger part of time is taken by talking to people and a lesser by writing this forum posts)

If you can work 25 or 50 hours per day on balance, i will gladly admit that you must put more time into EQ than i did in the patches. (Or even 12 hours per day, for patches every 2 months instead, and without talking to anyone, but my planned schedule for patches was and is about every 3 month, so that's not such a huge improvement anymore - and thats with more than 5 changes..)


Needless to say, balancing isn't just a contest who can put in more time, if the numbers are possible or not.
gg no re

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Re: Thoughts about Balance

Postby speed2 » 23 Sep 2016, 13:26

Number of hours per day was the first thing that got fixed in EQ. As you can see balance terrorist are always one step ahead.
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